Talk:Manchester United F.C./Archive 9

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Swear Written Instead of Manchester United

Today, i opened the Manchester United page on wikipedia and found a totally unacceptable swear words instead of Manchester United F.C. As an adherent Manchester United fan, i found it totally offensive for any Manchester United fan. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Manchester united rules (talk • contribs) 20:45, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Yes, those swear words were offensive. However, the page was moved back to its correct location within two minutes of the original move, so you must have been one of very few people who actually saw it at the incorrect location. Actually, that begs the question, why did you wait 20 minutes after seeing the offensive title before coming onto the talk page to moan about it? Hardly a constructive contribution, I must say. – Pee Jay 22:22, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

It took me a little while to talk about the swear because i was creating my wikipedia account. I created my account as soon as i saw those offensive words and immediately wanted to talk about it. It's very sad to hear people saying bad things about Manchester United because to me Manchester United is like a religion, every matchday, waking up early in the morning to watch them playing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Manchester united rules (talk • contribs) 14:16, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

To be honest, without wishing to offend, if those kinds of words hurt you then you need to man up. – Pee Jay 14:33, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Dude, whoever you are, if you cannot appreciate anything then try to keep your sarcasm within you.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.228.75.5 (talk • contribs)

I'm not being sarcastic. – Pee Jay 16:20, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

I agree with PeeJay2K3. Vandalism happens on Wikipedia and certainly by rival fans to any athletic teams' pages. I understand a fan's passion and loyalty to their team, but to take petty vandalism on the internet so personally is worrisome at best. Taking that much offense to a few swear words of vandalism on an article that's reverted quickly is childish. I wouldn't say "man-up", but rather grow-up. Vandalism should be taken seriously, but not personally. --68.77.15.214 (talk) 16:26, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Celebrities

Perhaps a list of well-known supporters as I am in New Zealand, if someone else did it I think it would add to the quality. Tshiels1 (talk) 02:29, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

I created a similar list months ago. However, it was removed as such information is unencyclopaedic and quite difficult to cite. Obviously there are a few celebrities who definitely support United, but there are also some whose support cannot be verified through reliable sources. – Pee Jay 09:29, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

RfC: Alex Ferguson Leaving

Is it worth going into to much detail as to create a section speculating about his retirement? I can see that there are three sources

The Mail Online David Gill denying speculation but suggesting Queiroz as replacement
The Mail Online transcript of the back page interview when fergie says he is off.
SkySports John O'shea expects him to make a U-turn

Should any section of this information appear at the begining of the manchester united entry or should it appear in the body of the report.

Should the subject of any new section concern just Ferguson leaving or include information about Quieroz taking over and his previous U-turn.PheonixRMB (talk) 22:02, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Personally, until such time as Fergie confirms he's leaving, and gives some sort of timetable (and not just "before I'm 70") I don't think it needs mentioning, especially as it's not the first time he's said he's going to retire. Darkson (BOOM! An interception!) 00:42, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

I agree. The main club history section should be for trophy wins and actual transfers of staff (inc. players). If this info must be included on Wikipedia, it would be best on Ferguson's own article, which actually needs more biographical stuff on there, instead of just a history of the club under him. – Pee Jay 14:35, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

the I leave the original content below for people to see and comment on its worth and were it should go

After winning the [[UEFA_Champions_League_2007-08|UEFA Champions League 2007-08]] Ferguson has stated that his intention to leave Manchester United within the next three years.<ref>{{cite news |url=http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1021771/Queiroz-step-boss-United-Sir-Alex-decides-day.html |title=Queiroz could step up to boss United when Sir Alex decides to call it a day |publisher=Mail Online (UK)|accessdate=2008-05-27 |date=[[2008-05-25]] }}</ref> Manchester United Chief Executive [[David Gill (executive)|David Gill]] has moved to calm some speculation about Alex Ferguson's retirement although he believes that Manchester United's Assistant Manager [[Carlos Queiroz]] would be ideally suited for the managers job.<ref>{{cite news |url=http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/article-1021832/Fergie-wont-retiring-insists-Manchester-United-chief-Gill.html |title=Fergie won't be retiring for some while yet, insists Manchester United chief Gill |publisher=Mail Online (UK)|accessdate=2008-05-27 |date=[[2008-05-25]] }}</ref>

I am sure this won't be the end of it PheonixRMB (talk) 14:45, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Reserve Team Coaches:

I have on two seperate occasions changed the reserve team coaches from Brian McClair who is no longer the "Caretaker Reserve Team Coach". And replace him with Ole Gunnar Solskjaer and Warren Joyce as joint coaches of the team. This is confirmed on the Manchester United official website.

ManUtd.com

Consulrjo 12:45, 28 May 2008 (BST)

That Link Appears to be dead PheonixRMB (talk) 11:49, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Ole Gunnar Solskjær and Warren Joyce will not take over as managers of the Reserve team until the start of next season, which doesn't technically start until 1 July. Similarly, Tom Heaton is not actually on loan to Cardiff until then, so I will be changing that too (actually, Heaton probably won't be going on loan until after the tour of South Africa, as I assume he'll be going on that tour as United's fourth-choice keeper). – Pee Jay 13:40, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

To all intensive pruposes then the reserve team management has changed seen as the season is over. Its the equivilant of signing a player for a future date knowing fulwell he won't take part in any other fixtures and hence he has "joined". I think it should be changed and I am with Consulrjo. PheonixRMB (talk) 21:32, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

As you can see by the reference Consulrjo provided, the article states that "United will have two coaches to guide the Reds' young charges in the Reserves league next season". The club acknowledges that the transition from 2007-08 to 2008-09 has not yet taken place, and so should we. The cut-off point is usually 1 July, so we should at least leave it until then. – Pee Jay 21:40, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

@ PheonixRMB - actually, players shouldn't be changed as "joined" until their contract comes into effect regardless of wheter they're going to play any more games for their old team or not, as shown by the multiple problems with last seasons signings. If waiting for a contract change works for players, it should work for coaches to. Wikipedia is not a crystal ball. Darkson (BOOM! An interception!) 10:22, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Fair Enough. I thought for a restructuring exercise whether it matters too much as thereis little difference between talking about future changes and the crystal ball rule.If a team says this is going to happen and there is a "plan to..." how much weight should be put upon these statements? I wish there was more of this disscussion so I can learn and to stop waring. Cheers PheonixRMB (talk) 13:07, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

The problem with future events is that they miht not happen. For example: Joe Bloggs is leaving Liverpool to sign for MU, and his contract will start on July 1st. Tom and Dick keep changing his Wiki article (now) to say he's a MU player, Harry keeps reverting. Meanwhile, Joe has gone on holiday to Australia, goes surfing, and has his leg bitten off by a shark, and has to retire. So has he ever been a United player? No, but if Tom and Dick had got there way, his article would say yes.

Ok, an extreme example (taking the mickey out of a UK tabloid football strip), but if someone doesn't take up a position until date X, there's always the possibility that something could happen to prevent that.

So, in this case, saying Ole is the coach now is wrong. Saying that Choccy is the coach, and Ole is due to take up the role in July would be ok (imo at least). Darkson (BOOM! An interception!) 14:27, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

refusal

Couldn't we put a bit in the history about the refusal to take part in the fa cup Itfc+canes=me (talk) 20:24, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Dr. Richard Hawkins

I was reading the Sheffield United website and came across this consulrjo 20:35, 7 June 2008 (BST)

SheffUtd.com

That doesn't answer why he has the title "Head of Sports Science" though. – Pee Jay 19:42, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

I have recentley read the Manchester United official magazine "United" and in it there was a special section where they highlighted who all the people around Manchester United's dugout were. In this section it declared that "Richard Hawkins has the fascinating title of 'Head of Human Performance'. He works with the sports science team at Carrington, helping the players reach peak physical condition". consulrjo 15:54, 15 September 2008 (BST)

I undid this change because it sounded made up, sorry. Can you provide a ref ?

Aaron carass (talk) 15:24, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

"Anatomy of the United Bench". Inside United (195): pp.18–19. 2008. Richard Hawkins has the fascinating titl of 'head of human performance'. He works with the sports science team at Carrington, helping the players reach peak physical performance. {{cite journal}}: |pages= has extra text (help); Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)

two contradictions

On this article it claims manchester united are the biggest and richest football club in the world, however on the real madrid article it makes exactly the same claim in the lead paragraph... Which one is true? 86.145.107.154 (talk) 17:17, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Depends on the way you look at it. IIRC, Real Madrid has the most paying members, and also the highest turnover, while a survey found that Man Utd has the most fans (whether paying members or not) and also the greatest profit. So both are true, in a way. – Pee Jay 18:12, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

no, only one is true, its real madrid.http://www.deloitte.com/dtt/article/0,1002,cid%253D246693,00.html

Not necessarily. Madrid are top of the deloitte money league, but that is only on revenues and not overall wealth. Eddie6705 (talk) 18:42, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

Ronaldo's european golden boot

he has been offically annouced as the winner for the 07-08 season on the uefa website, should be added to this artical somewhere near the golden ball winners, as he is the first and only manchester united winner of this high profile honour —Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.73.88.101 (talk) 19:58, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Featured in Hungary

The article about Manchester United became featured in Hungarian (magyar) WikiPedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.131.245.166 (talk) 18:20, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Solskjaer/McClair

The page states that Brian McClair is the caretaker reserve team manager. He had this job from June 2006 until recently, but Ole Gunnar Solskjaer has been appointed as the permanent manager of the reserves for the 2008-09 season. This means that Solskjaer will no longer be the first team's attacking coach. Also, it fails to mention that McClair is the current director of the Man Utd youth academy, a role that he has held simultaneously with the reserve team job. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Noamshouseparty (talk • contribs) 22:35, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Solskjaer doesn't take up the reserve team manager position until 1st July. Darkson (BOOM! An interception!) 04:15, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

What about McClair, as far as I know he's currently the youth academy director. Noamshouseparty (talk) 19:26, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

The page does say that McClair is the director of the youth academy. In fact, under the club officials section, it says "Director of Youth Academy: Brian McClair". – Pee Jay 19:28, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

I have changed the staff details to incorperate Ole Gunnar Solskjaer and Warren Joyce as the new reserve team duo due to the fact they have now taken charge of their first match of the pre-season and Brian McClair is no longer caretaker manager of the reserves in any way, shape or form. - Robert - 11:16, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

I think we can enclose one more site as the reference site

This Site collected lot of useful stats for MU

http://statbunker.com/football/btb/btb_team.php?TeamID=3&CompID=200 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Statbunker (talk • contribs) 18:09, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Do you really think it´s appropriate for you, Statbunker, to be promoting a site with the same name? Smacks of COI to me. – Pee Jay 08:47, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Number of fans

From the links given, it appears that the research company involved interviewed 1,000 people, found 50 Man Utd fans (5%), and concluded from this that 5% of the world's population (330 million) are Man Utd fans. Is that right? 62.181.46.66 (talk) 08:53, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Unlikely, as surveys conducted by research companies are not that unscientific. I haven't had time to read the sources myself, but I would suggest that the figure was obtained by a slightly more complex method than you suggest. – Pee Jay 18:16, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.197.240.85 (talk) 11:48, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

The survey interviewed 1000 fans from 21 countries so can hardly be included surely? interviewing 21,000 people? i'm sure 99% of people in mcdonalds restaurants like chips but that doesn't mean 6.6 billion do. this should be changed —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.88.111.76 (talk) 08:57, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

I think they interviewed 1,000 people spread across 21 countries, not 1,000 people from each of 21 countries. Nevertheless, the reference seems valid. – Pee Jay 09:07, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Stretford End Flags

Can you add a feature on the banners on the Stretford End? These are collaborated by the fans group www.stretfordendflags.com Supporters can submit banner ideas, with the best ones being made and hung on the Stretford End. Stretford End Flags relies on financial donations from supporters to provide the banners. Last season Stretford End Flags created the "BELIEVE" mosaics seen in Moscow and at Old Trafford for the Semi final against Barcelona, as well as the mosaic featuring a European Cup 88/99 design seen on the Stretford End. The Stretford End Flags group also produced the large TIFO flags seen on the pitch at the European games and members of Stretford End Flags on-lione forum get the opportnity to wave these at ecah European Home game.

Ed Woodward

Ed Woodward is and Executive Director on the board of Manchester United Ltd. He is a former investment banker and has been on the Manchester Unite payroll since 2006. He has been working out of the London office and has been working on sponsorship oportunities. He was largley involved in the origional takeover helping Malcolm Glazer obtain the money to buy the club.

I have just taken delivery of my 'One United' membership pack this morning and it clearly states that he holds the post of 'Executive Director'. Also on the MUST website there is reference to him being appointed on the 30th March 2008.

So update the article. But don't forget to cite your source. – Pee Jay 17:07, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Manucho in the first team

I've removed manucho from the first team list again, as according to ManUtd.com (the website we're meant to use as the source material), he's not listed as a first team player. Indeed, until his work permit status is sorted, I doubt he can be listed as a first team player, or even a reserve player. If we're going to list him as a first team player, against what the linked source says, where do we draw the line? Do we also add players like Possebon? He was more likely to be in the first team for last season than Manucho was, and, as of this moment (unless you can see the future), he's more likely to play for the first team next season.

Has anyone a good reason why he should be listed within the first team list? Darkson (BOOM! An interception!) 20:48, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

I'm 100% certain that there was a news report where Ferguson said that Manucho would be part of the United first team when he starts training with the club. I just can't find it. But it definitely exists. – Pee Jay 20:59, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Here's a news report stating that Manucho trained with the first team while on trial with the club back in December. – Pee Jay 21:02, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Dammit! Had a longreply that got lost due to a server lag! >:(

Ok, in brief (as I can't be bothered to type it all out again), why was it, earlier in the season, when various editors (wrongly) tried to add various players to various Man Utd squads, you kept telling them to check ManUtd.com, as that was the source we used for all the squads, and yet now you're disagreeing with the same source? We can't have it both ways - either we accept the ManUtd.com is the source we use, in which case manucho is NOT a first team player (at the moment), or we don't, in which case it will be a free-for-all. Darkson (BOOM! An interception!) 21:15, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Can you find a reliable source that says that various other players, including Possebon, are considered first team players? I've found one for Manucho, but I'm yet to see any evidence that Possebon, or any others not listed on the provided reference (excluding Manucho), are first teamers. – Pee Jay 21:22, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

You're missing the point - as of this moment, Possebon (or any other reserve/academy player) is more eligible to be in the first team than Manucho, who cannot play in this country, as he currently doesn't have a work permit. I never said they were first team players, just they have more chance of playing than he does (he has zero, even if you ignore the injury). As you said yourself before the last season started, friendly games mean nothing (and he's unable to play in them anyway), it's only once the website lists players and numbers it becomes official.

Or have you changed your mind since last year? Darkson (BOOM! An interception!) 21:40, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

However, I do have a source that does say Manucho isn't in the first team http://www.manutd.com/default.sps?pagegid={91EA3BE2-963A-4BAB-802C-F46A0EF3FCA3}&page=1 http://www.manutd.com/default.sps?pagegid={91EA3BE2-963A-4BAB-802C-F46A0EF3FCA3}&teamid=458&page=2 Darkson (BOOM! An interception!) 21:42, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Glazer Takeover

What's the justification for Glazer's takeover to be given its own sub-heading in the history section. Why can it not be merged into the rest of the history since '99? It is significant, yes, but so are many other events. ForeverDevil (talk) 16:59, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Can't disagree with that. Feel free to merge the sections. – Pee Jay 21:28, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

I think it should remain in a sub-section, as the history section it would otherwise be merged into is entirely about on the field events, whilst the take over was very much off the field. Fd2006 (talk) 09:10, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

The founding of the club and Munich air disaster are not given sub-sections despite their greater importance. I'll have a go at it now. ForeverDevil (talk) 18:08, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Rafeal & Fabio

Why do these two players not have their own wiki pages yet? Can they be created or is their some wiki rules stating otherwise? I recall that they used to have profile pages but they disappeared over a year ago. With them both having made their debuts in pre-season friendly against Peterbrough surely this can now be rectified? Also following Fergie's comments post match it seems as though Rafael at the very least will be getting some first team action this coming season. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.73.108.219 (talk) 07:44, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

These two players do not have articles yet as they have not made a senior competitive appearance for Manchester United yet, and are therefore not notable in a sporting sense. Any speculation that either of them will play for the first team this season is crystal-balling and is not allowed. – Pee Jay 08:10, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

I was just going off Fergie's comments here: http://www.manutd.com/default.sps?pagegid=%7BB4CEE8FA%2D9A47%2D47BC%2DB069%2D3F7A2F35DB70%7D&newsid=6615370 seems to indicate he may play some part this year. There is also this profile of the twins on the man utd page as of today http://www.manutd.com/default.sps?pagegid=%7B6DDFCB6E%2D3471%2D4E45%2D9385%2DF04D05F4A70D%7D&newsid=6615387 Understand if they cannot have their own pages yet however. Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.73.108.219 (talk) 09:21, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

They also have their own squad numbers now - 20 & 21 which was confirmed at last nights friendly against Juventus. Surely this would indicate that they are to be considered members of the first team squad? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.73.108.219 (talk) 11:10, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Not necessarily. Just because a player has a squad number doesn't mean he is in the first team, especially when it's a squad number for a pre-season friendly. However, the two of them have been listed in the first team squad on the official website, which indicates that they are in the first team. Nevertheless, they are still not notable as they have not played a competitive match yet. – Pee Jay 11:34, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

From my understanding they were using correct squad numbers for this match which indicates that these will be their squad numbers for the current season. the number 20 was obviously already vacant and the number 21 it looks like Dong has been removed from the first team squad. Thanks for the update —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.73.108.219 (talk) 11:40, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

According to the Manchester United website they have been given numbers 98 and 99 and their profiles say they are first team players. Surely any player who is in a select group of 25 or so players playing for the European champions deserves their own page. The very fact this discussion exists sure means they're notable. (http://www.manutd.com/default.sps?pagegid={91EA3BE2-963A-4BAB-802C-F46A0EF3FCA3}&teamid=458&page=2) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.44.12.138 (talk) 13:38, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Actually, according to ManUtd.com, they have not been given those numbers, they are merely listed under those numbers. If you look at page 2 of Rafael's profile, you'll see I'm right. Also, merely being in the squad does not confer notability. They must play a match and then they will be deemed to be notable. – Pee Jay 14:14, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

My mistake. But does the interest in the players not make them "notable"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.44.12.138 (talk) 15:23, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Any answer to the above? I think it's a valid point. Also, does being part of the squad for the Community Shield squad mean a medal/honour? Would the holder(s) of a medal not be entitled to an entry? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.155.189.85 (talk) 10:34, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Hard to say really. It's a matter for the folks at WP:FOOTY, IMO. – Pee Jay 10:44, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Rafael is now listed on the Man Utd website as wearing No.21, although so is Dong Fangzhuo.--Classymike (talk) 08:02, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Squad numbers 2008

Will anyone else be pleased once they finally release the new seasons squad numbers, so we can stop all the edits changing numbers? I think Rafael has had 3 different ones (not including #99) already! Darkson (BOOM! An interception!) 22:44, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

I think it goes without saying that we will all be pleased when the speculation ends and the facts begin. By the way, what were the other two numbers Rafael's held (other than 21)? – Pee Jay 22:50, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Wasn't it 30-something, or was that another player that's ping-ponged between numbers over the last few days? (haven't really been paying much attention that last few days, hence the lack of edits) Darkson (BOOM! An interception!) 22:58, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

He had the 19 shirt for the Peterbrough match as well —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.218.198.201 (talk) 09:57, 12 August 2008 (UTC)