Talk:Manchester United F.C./Archive 11

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Size of the First-team squad

Surely the number of players in the first team squad is to big, does United not have a reserve team? Simply making a first team appearance does not mean that you are now a member of the first team squad. I prepose downsizing the squad. --Johnelwaq (talk) 10:44, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

The first team squad list is based on the list of first team players on the Manchester United official website. If a player is listed there, he's listed here. – PeeJay 22:25, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Formation Date

Before updating the main article I'd like to bring to everyone's attention that the Louis Rocca story about selecting the name and the date of the formation is now regarded as incorrect. In "Manchester - A Football History" (pages 87-97) the chapter on Newton Heath's transformation to United is covered in detail and the author has identified reports from prior to the date listed on here showing the formation as Thursday 24th April. The book also quotes more than one source, including a section commenting on the selection of the name. The secretary (for the meeting) was James West and he wanted to retain the name Newton Heath in some way, while the man who chaired the meeting (James Brown) is seen as the man who came up with the United name, not Rocca. It also identifies that the name of Manchester Central could not possibly have been seriously considered due to an existing (but failing) side that played at Alexandra Park (no connection to the later Manchester Central). The author goes into a lot of detail and backs it up with evidence, so before I update the site I want to highlight it here. Any views?

Incidentally, it also shows that Newton Heath wanted to change their name to Manchester FC in 1894 - that was blocked by the FA.

Beanoboggs (talk) 10:42, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

"The Definitive Newton Heath F.C." by Alan Shury and Brian Landamore corroborates the fact that it was not Rocca who came up with the name Manchester United. It also notes that the minutes of the Lancashire FA show that Newton Heath's name was officially changed to Manchester United on 28 May 1902, and that the name was suggested by "one old supporter ... but this did not meet with much favour". – PeeJay 11:06, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

The Rocca story has always been a nice one, but I know the guys at the United museum don't support it. There are no hard facts, other than anecdotal stories, and it seems to have evolved out of stories involving Rocca's Utd involvement from the 1930s-40s. Rocca would have been a relatively young man in 1902, so couldn't have been the 'one old supporter...'

The formation date is significant as "Manchester A Football History" proves the meeting was held earlier than Utd's official records show. The book has a lot of factual, detailed evidence, and actually shows there are a lot of myths about all the Manchester clubs. Beanoboggs (talk) 11:29, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Oh yes, I should have mentioned that "The Definitive Newton Heath F.C." gives the date that the "old supporter" suggested Manchester United as 19 March 1902. I wasn't suggesting that it was Rocca though. I do think that the Rocca story should be mentioned for novelty value, but it should be noted that it is generally accepted to be apocryphal. – PeeJay 19:15, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Official Sponcors

No offence PeeJay, but once again you revert my work. I think you do a good job on here in general but you sometimes need to think that there are others out there who contribute to wikipedia and who know more about things than you do. Manchester does have Kumho Tires as a sponsor and you keep reverting it because its "irrelevant sponsors" or as you said "let's not go overboard" thats your personal opinion but not everyone elses you think that this page is yours when its not "everyone" can contribute to it without people like you revert every little thing that you decide thats not necessary, what im saying is that let other people help to not just you PeeJay2k3

IIRC, the list of sponsors was reviewed in the article's last peer review, and it was decided that only a select few sponsors should be mentioned. All I am asking for is an explanation for why a football club's "official tyre sponsor" should be listed. Perhaps we could even look at a few of the other sponsors listed here and see about removing a couple, or adding a couple that weren't listed before. Either way, unilateral action from either side is unwarranted, hence this discussion. – PeeJay 18:44, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

And all I am using is a select few you keep taking it off because you dont want it on there, "you have yet to provide a decent explanation for making special mention of a tyre company as the club's sponsor." that is coming from your opinion and not everyone elses its not that it has a special meaning but that it is listed as one of its "Official Main Sponcors" which is to why I dont understand why you cant let it be. - User:FGaribay

The list was perfectly fine until you decided to add Kumho Tires to it for no apparent reason. Again, what is the reason why you added Kumho Tires? You say that they are listed as "Official Main Sponsors" (that's how to spell "sponsors", btw; there's no C in "sponsors"), but I only see them listed as "Official Sponsors" just like Viagogo, Lucozade Sport, Smirnoff, Airtel, Tri Indonesia, STC, Hi Seoul and all the rest. There is no mention of any sponsor being any more "main" than any other, with the exception of Nike and AIG, who are more prominent because their names are on the club's shirt. Anyway, so that we can't be accused of giving undue weight to any particular organisation, I'm removing the entire list. – PeeJay 20:48, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

This guy has a point which should probably be brought up somewhere else. But its so impossible to edit wiki, theirs so many rules and regulations and "reviews" and everything else, unless you want to spend hours a day on wikipedia, its simply not possible to learnt the ropes without hours of reading and looking around. /rant. CipherPixel (talk) 10:07, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

You have a point, CP. But the point also stands that we can't just list every company that United are sponsored by as that is neither useful nor encyclopaedic. People don't need to know which companies sponsor the club, and if an individual does need to know, there are better places to look than on the club's Wikipedia article. – PeeJay 10:35, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Yes indeed and I agree with you. I was just having a rant about everything else. Where can I develop this further btw? CipherPixel (talk) 10:33, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Develop what further, mate? – PeeJay 10:43, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

First team is a joke

its been discussed before, but it must be looked at, the manchester united first team does not contain FIFTY players, what ever anything says, half the players have never sat on the united bench for goodness sake, most the 'fringe' players are also in the reserves in wikipedia, and some the academy, its a joke to include this many players and must be changed.

I am fully aware that these players are on the united first team section on the offical united website but i still believe there addition is exesive to say the least and must be changed (P34c0ck1991 (talk) 22:11, 30 June 2009 (UTC)) )

Wikipedia must not contain unsourced information, so to deviate from the sourced first-team squad list would be against Wikipedia policy. There will be no change. – PeeJay 22:08, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Players moved

as you will see, tevez and ronaldo are no longer united players

http://www.manutd.com/default.sps?pagegid={91EA3BE2-963A-4BAB-802C-F46A0EF3FCA3}&page=1

--P34c0ck1991 (talk) 23:27, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Trafford Training Centre a.k.a Carrington Road

Considering this has its own article, I think this article should at least mention it (both names), in the main body. MickMacNee (talk) 10:19, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Where could it be put though? There'd be no point giving it its own section as it would have almost as much info as the Trafford Training Centre article itself. I suppose it could be a sub-section in the "Stadium" section. Btw, I've never heard it referred to as "Carrington Road", just "Carrington". – PeeJay 10:31, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

The man in #10

Micheal Owen has joined Manchester United, its been confirmed on their website.(http://www.manutd.com/default.sps?pagegid={FE60904B-C2A8-4E60-9B05-700DBBC29BBC}&section=playerProfile&teamid=&bioid=93894) Shouldn't he be part of roster? Yes he should ( I think). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.34.89.211 (talk) 22:48, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Owen is already listed in the squad list. Also, he won't be #10 at Man Utd as Wayne Rooney has that number. – PeeJay 23:29, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Michael Owen, Antonio Valencia and Gabriel Obertan have not been assigned squad numbers yet, as the Manutd.com website shows. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Irtiza Rizvi (talk • contribs)

Charlie Roberts Transfer Fee

Can we have a ref for the £750 fee mentioned in the article, as every book and website I have read mention a £600 fee?Decorativeedison (talk) 11:55, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Fifa Cup World Cup

It is correct that they do not considere it as part of a double or a treble, but certainly as a part of a quadtreble or even a quinttreble. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.217.87.39 (talk) 13:52, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Eh? Also, have you just made up the words quadtreble and quinttreble yourself?Decorativeedison (talk) 12:22, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

First Team Squad

Fraizer Campbell has now left the club and moved to Sunderland. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.141.103.12 (talk) 17:05, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Yes, and he was removed from the list before you posted that message. Thanks. – PeeJay 18:13, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Well that's interesting because why else would I have posted that in the first place?! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.141.103.12 (talk) 16:54, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

What are you on about? Campbell was removed from the list before you made your original post, so why did you feel the need to post about his move to Sunderland anyway?! – PeeJay 19:09, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

Richard Eckersley has now left the club and moved to Burnley

Same applies to you. Do you really think it's necessary to tell people here about transfers involving the most famous club on the planet? – PeeJay 12:13, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Something has happened and Danny Simpson has not got No. 25 and Antonio Valencia has been given that number!!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by MUFC JJ (talk • contribs) 21:02, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Just because Valencia wore #25 in a friendly doesn't mean that he'll wear that number for the 2009-10 season. Wait until the squad numbers are officially announced before making changes. – PeeJay 21:04, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Was announced on MUTV last week that Valencia would have the number 25 shirt this season. Wish Utd would hurry up and u pdate their crappy webpage with squad numbers already. Do they not think people might like to buy a shirt with Valencia or Obertan on the back perhaps? Idiots —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.73.108.210 (talk) 09:42, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

English Football Champions

Should there be a reference in the Domestic Honors section referencing the total number of times the team has been English Football Champions? This could be linked to the List of English Football Champions ? However this could cause confusion as to the football league level of their first and second division league titles.Allthenamesaregone (talk) 20:23, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Stadium Infobox

Should a stadium infobox box be included in the team's article? I'm working on adding a facilitates section to the Dallas Cowboys and have never seen a stadium infobox included in the body of a seperate article. Should it even be in this article? NThomas (talk) 01:55, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Stadium Infobox

Should a stadium infobox box be included in the team's article? I'm working on adding a facilitates section to the Dallas Cowboys and have never seen a stadium infobox included in the body of a separate article. Should it even be in this article? NThomas (talk) 01:55, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Third kit

Is last season's away [1]

Players on loan

Technically, Ljajic should be listed as he is still on loan until January 2010. Cheers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adem_Ljaji%C4%87 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.32.105.249 (talk) 19:30, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Actually, Ljajic isn't on loan. He just can't join Man Utd until January as he doesn't turn 18 until after the current transfer window closes, and FIFA prohibits the international transfer of players under the age of 18. – PeeJay 20:11, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Well whatever then; the fee has been paid and officially he's a United player in January. Also, Valencia has been given number 25 according to United's website. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.32.105.249 (talk) 13:11, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

There are five players on loan according to the official Manchester United web site:

Rodrigo Possebon (Midfield) at Sporting Braga in Portugal - although it seems he has not played yet

Tom Cleverley (Midfield) at Watford in the Championship - seems to be first choice played 3 scored 2

Danny Simpson (Defender) at Newcastle in the Championship - seems to be first choice played 3

Danny Drinkwater (Midfield) at Huddersfield in League 1 - 2 starts and 2 subs

Tom Heaton (Goalkeeper) at QPR in the Championship - 1 start 3 subs not used

 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.150.13.53 (talk) 23:48, 26 August 2009 (UTC) 

And of those, only Cleverley is listed as a member of the first team. – PeeJay 07:55, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

squad no's

this needs sorting out, clearly there cannot be two number 25's, Valencia wore this number yesterday, but simpson is still listed as 25, remove it, it is no longer his number. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.23.166.196 (talk) 00:28, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

I'm sure you wouldn't suggest that we take it upon ourselves to resolve an error at the club's site. Once the club determines unequivocably who is to bear what number for the coming season, and communicates that decision in a non-contradictory manner, we can report it; until then, we can only report that there is a lack of clarity. Kevin McE (talk) 11:28, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

"First Manager From Outside of England"?

According to the article, this was Scott Duncan, but both Back Page United (ISBN: 1-85291-553-6) and The Official Illustrated History of Manchester United (ISBN: 0-75287-603-1) state that John Chapman was a Scot. As he had previously played for Rangers and managed Airdrieonians, that seems likely. I'll amend the table to correct this. Decorativeedison (talk) 15:00, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Right you are! Can't believe I missed that! – PeeJay 19:52, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Carrington Training Ground

There is another article, I think it is Trafford Training Centre article and it is about Carrington, where the team trains. Could this be added to the see also portion at the bottom. I dont know how to do it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trafford_Training_Centre 86.41.121.165 (talk)Rory~~12th August 2009

There is a link to the aforementioned article in the Manchester United navbox at the very bottom of the page. The navbox also contains other important articles relating to the Manchester United topic. – PeeJay 14:07, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

I cant see it in the nav box are you sure PeeJay 18:25, 19 August 2009 (UTC)Roryunsigned comment added by 86.41.121.165 (talk)

It's there. {{Manchester United F.C.}} –  LATICS  talk  18:57, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

I meant I cant see that on the main page. Sry if this is noob comment but where is "nav box" on the main article. Top,bottom,middle. 18:12, 21 August 2009 (UTC)Rory —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.41.121.165 (talk)

It's right at the bottom. There's a red bar that says "Manchester United Football Club", and you click where it says "[Show]" to show all the links to different articles related to the club. – PeeJay 21:25, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for your patience I see it now. 86.41.121.165 (talk) 16:15, 22 August 2009 (UTC)Rory

late 70's and Greenhoff(s)

Only Brian Greenhoff is mentioned during the 1970's period, but I have a certain memory that he also had a brother, Jimmy Greenhoff that plyaed at the same time. Of cource there were a lot of other non-mentioned players during this time and all can't be described by name. But since they were brothers, perhaps Jimmy Greenhoff should be named in the text aswell ? /Pontus Eriksson

Flag next to Ferguson's name

I suggest we change the flag from Scottish to the Union Jack of the United Kingdom. It's not as if he is a player representing Scotland. His is a UK citizen and holds a British passport. It's ridiculous that his nationality doesn't read British. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.11.7.108 (talk) 16:01, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

The United Kingdom is not a FIFA-recognised country, only England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland are. Since Ferguson is recognised as being Scottish, it's not unreasonable to put a Scottish flag next to his name. – PeeJay 20:34, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

Honours

In English cup competition a second place finish earns a club team a runner-up medal, therefore I feel that those finishes are achievements and should be listed accordingly in the honours section. Arsenal F.C., & Chelsea F.C. both star class articles do the same & Manchester United should follow suit. More information in an encyclopedia is not necessarily a bad thing especially when more achievements in the honours section are present. Selecciones de la Vida (talk) 23:24, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

Just because Arsenal F.C. and Chelsea F.C. are FA-class articles doesn't mean they are perfect by any means, and we are under no obligation to copy content from those articles for that reason alone. Anyway, I've already started a discussion about this topic at WT:FOOTY#Club honours sections, so let's continue this there. – PeeJay 06:58, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

I never said that FA-class articles are perfect, but they are considered to be the best articles in Wikipedia. That is something that all articles should strive for, especially this one.Selecciones de la Vida (talk) 03:25, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

Club captains

Suggestion - amend record of club captain dates for Denis Law and Bobby Charlton - Denis Law captaincy ended during 1968 and was taken over by Bobby Charlton - According to the Manchester United Year Book 3 covering the 1967 -68 season Denis Law was club captain and led the team out in the semi-final first leg against Real Madrid. However he misssed the second leg of the semi-final and the final through a knee injury. Bobby Charlton was captain for the final and was club captain the next season.

In fact there is a jinx on United club captains since none of them have played in a European Cup Final or Champions League final whilst captain - Denis Law 1968, Roy Keane 1999, Gary Neville 2008 and 2009. Rexhorwood (talk) 00:18, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

This may be true, but the list of captains is taken from a published source, which states that Law's tenure as captain ended in 1967. That said, the reference used was published in 1999, so new research may have come to light and a more up-to-date list may be available. – PeeJay 00:30, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

I definitely think the current captain needs updating, yes whenever he plays Neville is club captain however that is not very often these days due to constant injuries. Over the last 3 years Ryan Giggs has assumed Captain duties with Rio Ferdinand taking Vice-Captain, I think the main page captain needs updating to Giggs. 91.107.167.49 (talk) 16:11, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

I think you have "club captain" confused with "team captain". Gary Neville is the club captain whether he plays or not, but the team captain depends on who is selected for each game. Sometimes it's Neville, sometimes it's Giggs and other times it's Ferdinand, Rooney, Fletcher, O'Shea or whoever. But Gary Neville is certainly the club captain. – PeeJay 17:21, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

Edit request

{{editsemiprotected}}

Suggestion:Please add current standing of Manchester United in epl. —Preceding unsigned comment added by K1.saurabh (talk • contribs) 08:31, 9 November 2009

Not done: Welcome and thanks for wanting to improve this article. The {{editsemiprotected}} template is intended to allow non-autoconfirmed users to insert changes into semi-protected pages. To make a suggestion, simply leave off the template and one of your fellow editors of this article may take the suggestion and implement it; to request an edit, specify the change you want to make in a 'Please change X to Y' level of detail. Thanks, Celestra (talk) 18:25, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

Manchester United's current standing in any competition they are competing in can be found in their current season article (Manchester United F.C. season 2009–10). – PeeJay 01:23, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

{{editsemiprotected}}Please update current standings in current season section from 2 to 3.(k1.saurabh 05:17, 12 November 2009 (UTC)) —Preceding unsigned comment added by K1.saurabh (talk • contribs)

Do it yourself. – PeeJay 08:21, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

This news story, Man Utd £500m bonds issue. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8451848.stm

Manchester United Manager Jimmy Porter 1938 to 1944

See http://y2u.co.uk/sub028_sport/football_england/fa_0021_Manchester_United.htm Jimmy Porter was my great uncle and he was the manager of Manchester United during the war.

The current Wikipeda entry does not show this.

The current Wikipeda entry has contradictions. re: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manchester_United_F.C. Managerial history Main article: List of Manchester United F.C. managers Dates Name Notes 1878–1892 Unknown 1892–1900 A. H. Albut 1900–1903 James West 1903–1912 Ernest Mangnall 1912–1914 John Bentley 1914–1922 Jack Robson 1922–1926 John Chapman First manager from outside of England 1926–1927 Lal Hilditch 1927–1931 Herbert Bamlett 1931–1932 Walter Crickmer 1932–1937 Scott Duncan 1937–1945 Walter Crickmer 1945–1969 Matt Busby First post-Second World War manager and longest serving manager in United's history 1969–1970 Wilf McGuinness 1970–1971 Matt Busby 1971–1972 Frank O'Farrell First manager from outside the United Kingdom 1972–1977 Tommy Docherty 1977–1981 Dave Sexton 1981–1986 Ron Atkinson 1986–present Alex Ferguson Most successful manager in terms of trophies

This list shows 1937–1945 Walter Crickmer which is incorrect. This is in contradiction with the Wikipedia page on Walter Crickmer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Crickmer Which shows clearly that he was not the manager between 1932 and 1944: Walter Crickmer He became Manchester United club secretary in 1926.[1] He twice assumed managerial responsibility: from 1 April 1931 to 1 June 1932, and then again from 1 August 1944 to 1 February 1945.

---

on this web site http://www.leaguemanagers.com/manager/history-943.html

Jimmy Porter is shown as becoming manager of Manchester United on 1 August 1938 until 1944. In that year he became manager of Bury.

David Wilde (email address removed to prevent spam) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.192.131.241 (talk) 01:45, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

The official records show that Walter Crickmer was the acting manager of Manchester United from 1937 to 1945. There is no record of anyone by the name of Jimmy Porter. The first link you posted is simply a mirror of an earlier revision of this article, and therefore inadmissible, and the second link is extremely thin on the ground when it comes to hard facts. You would have a hard time convincing most people that this person was United manager from 1938 to 1944. The only evidence I can find of anyone named Porter on United's books at the time was full-back Billy Porter. – PeeJay 02:51, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

Several books (not currently at hand, unfortunately) list Jimmy Porter as having been made assistant manager to Crickmer after Scott Duncan left. Due to the fact that so little information exists of wartime football, all I know is that his time at United ended in October 1944. At that time he left for Bury, I believe.

The term secretary is confusing because the role was often used instead of "manager" in the early years of football and it may have been that Crickmer had a dual role as manager/secretary and that the word secretary was used to cover all his responsibilities as head of the team's affairs during a time when league football was suspended.

Currently, United officially list Crickmer as "manager" between Duncan and Busby.Decorativeedison (talk) 16:06, 26 December 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jim Lawlor

"Jim Lawlor is a football scout, currently employed as the Chief Scout at Manchester United. Before joining the Red Devils, Lawlor previously worked in South African football,[1] and has also held the position of Senior Lecturer in Sports Science at Liverpool John Moores University, where he worked on a tracking system for use in football matches."

This article is now up for deletion. Ikip 07:43, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

Change of Colours

The following section is misleading/incorrect: "Davies also decided it would be appropriate to change the club's colours, abandoning the green and gold halves of Newton Heath, and picking red and white to be the colours of Manchester United."

Newton Heath had stopped wearing green and gold halves as their home kit more than a decade before the name change and had been wearing white shirts with navy shorts and socks as their home kit for the previous six years (http://www.unitedkits.com/kits/index.html) Decorativeedison (talk) 16:25, 26 December 2009 (UTC)

No feedback on this from anyone, so I've edited the article and backed it up with refs. Decorativeedison (talk) 14:22, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

Previous Club badge/crest

The image with the description "Manchester United badge in the 1960s and early 1970s" is nothing more than an edited version of the club badge as used from 1992-97. The actual badge that was used by the club prior to the inclusion of the red devil is this one [2]. As is obvious, it is really quite different. Does anyone agree that the current image should be replaced? Decorativeedison (talk) 23:28, 2 January 2010 (UTC)

I agree, however the badge you refer to itself should be yellow, red and white (the black bits were yellow when worn on shirts). This badge was used by the Club from the 1950s, though it wasn't actually worn on shirts until the 1972-73 season (there's a chapter on colours, badges etc. in "Manchester A Football History" and this highlights United's badge history on pages 362-363 - I can provide relevanty ref info if this is to be included).BillyMeredithShorts (talk) 12:50, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

I don't understand your point on the colouring. The image is just a cleaned up scan of how the badge appeared on an official club document, so the colours are correct. As you say, it was never worn on shirts. When the players started wearing badges on their shirts in 1972, it was a completely different version of it, which ditched the bendlets (stripes) and added the red devil. I do not have Gary James' book as it's pretty hard to get hold of now, so I'm waiting for the revised version that should be out in Autumn. A ref would be useful so thanks for the offer. Decorativeedison (talk) 19:15, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

The yellow was the official colour of it and appeared on official souvenirs and so on (sew on badges and the like). That yellow evolved into the current colouring. You're right about the shirt use, sorry the image I have looked like the original badge. I'll get some refs etc. together in the next week or so, but you're definitely spot on with the desire to make this change. It's right to get the correct badge on here, and it will show the evolution (from Manchester coat of arms) of it in all its glory. BillyMeredithShorts (talk) 11:36, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

Sorry, I didn't notice this comment until after I'd uploaded the black, white and red version. Do you have the exact dates when it was used? I have a feeling it was mid 1950s to around 1970 (United Reviews from 1970/71 feature the red devil club badge). Also, any chance of scanning your differently coloured version for the article? Thanks. Decorativeedison (talk) 01:06, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

adolfo bautista is not the manager.

Jrparks (talk) 05:17, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

Premier League/First Division

Can I ask why the Premier League and the First Division are seperated in the Honours section, while the European Cup and the Champions League are combined? Surely there was more of a change in structure to the European Cup when it became the Champions League, what with the group stages and all that. There is really no functional difference between the Premier League and the First Division. Sure, they are technically seperate companies, but what is of paramount importance (especially for that section) is that both were the top level of league football in England when Manchester United won them. The Premier League is the direct successor to the First Division. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.102.113.194 (talk) 06:38, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

The UEFA Champions League, while using a completely different format to the European Cup, is a continuation of that tournament, which ceased to exist after the foundation of the Champions League. The two tournaments have contiguous histories. The Football League First Division did not cease to exist after the foundation of the Premier League, it continued until 2004, when it was rebranded as the Football League Championship. The relationship between the Champions League and the European Cup has more in common with the Championship and the First Division than it does with the First Division and the Premier League. The First Division and the Premier League are listed separately and rightly so. – PeeJay 14:24, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

Name Of the manager of the club

The name of the manager of the club needs to b changed to Sir Alex Ferguson.Abhishekchou (talk) 13:48, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

Conflicting data in History section

The History section, "Alex Ferguson era, pre-Treble (1986–1998)", says the club floated in the stock exchange in 1991 with a valuation of £47 million: "In 1991, requiring some extra financial support in the wake of the Taylor Report, the club floated on the London Stock Exchange with a valuation of £47 million."

However, the main article on that period of United's history, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Manchester_United_F.C._(1986–1998), puts the valuation at £18 million: "Also in 1991, United floated on the London Stock Exchange, with a valuation of £18 million."

This is just a guess, but it is possible/likely that one figure is referring to the pre-float valuation, while the other refers to its valuation at the end of the first day of trading (like I said, just a guess). In any event, the two figures need to be brought in line, or the two statements need to be reworded to clarify precisely what they are referring to. AlistairLW (talk) 19:17, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Possebon number

Rodrigo Possebon has returned to United, he should be squad number 34 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 187.7.212.18 (talk) 19:38, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Possebon wasn't given a squad number this season. Just because a player is given a number doesn't mean he retains it in perpetuity; he has to be re-registered every season. – PeeJay 19:59, 31 January 2010 (UTC)