Wikipedia:Today's featured article/requests/Pavle Đurišić

Pavle Đurišić[edit]

This nomination predates the introduction in April 2014 of article-specific subpages for nominations and has been created from the edit history of Wikipedia:Today's featured article/requests.

This is the archived discussion of the TFAR nomination for the article below. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as Wikipedia talk:Today's featured article/requests). Please do not modify this page.

The result was: scheduled for Wikipedia:Today's featured article/April 13, 2014 by Bencherlite ^Talk 07:48, 7 April 2014‎ (UTC)[reply]

Pavle Đurišić (1909–1945) was an officer of the Royal Yugoslav Army who became a Chetnik commander during World War II. He was one of the commanders of the popular uprising in Montenegro in July 1941, then collaborated with the Italians against the Yugoslav Partisans. In 1943, he carried out massacres against the Muslim population of Bosnia, Herzegovina and the Sandžak and participated in an anti-Partisan offensive alongside Italian troops. He was captured by the Germans, escaped and was recaptured, but was released after the Italian surrender, then created the Montenegrin Volunteer Corps with German assistance. In late 1944, he was decorated with the Iron Cross 2nd Class by the German commander in Montenegro. He was killed by elements of the Armed Forces of the Independent State of Croatia near Banja Luka after he was captured in an apparent trap. Đurišić was a very able Chetnik leader, and his fighting skills were respected by his allies and opponents alike. (Full article...)

Comment by nominator: Over a year since the article was promoted, and over a year since a Yugoslav military bio was at TFA. Đurišić is the only Chetnik known to have been awarded the Iron Cross by Nazi Germany. One of the leading Chetnik commanders in Yugoslavia during WWII, he fought the Italians, Partisans and Ustaše, and also collaborated with both the Italians and Germans. Hope you find him interesting. Regards, Peacemaker67 (send... over) 12:23, 2 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Comment There's a picture on Wikimedia Commons that's derived from the one proposed for the blurb (File:Pavle Đurišić at speech.jpg). Wouldn't you agree that this photo would better depict Đurišić's features, as opposed to one of him standing distantly beside another individual? 23 editor (talk) 12:37, 2 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- For the article itself I agree the facial features are more important, but I chose the wider one for TFA as it shows the Italian military governor of Montenegro, Alessandro Pirzio Biroli watching Đurišić speak, which is very important given the close collaboration between the Italians and Đurišić. Regards, Peacemaker67 (send... over) 12:55, 2 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Support, interesting article on this deceased military official. High quality and encyclopedic. However, the blurb text should note years of his birth and death. — Cirt (talk) 15:33, 4 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Comment, the intro and picture are misleading because:
1. The image presents Đurišić as ally of Biroli, which gives undue weight to one period. Đurišić and Biroli were both enemies and allies. In one very important period during the 1941 uprising Đurišić was opposed to Biroli. He began collaborating with Biroli only in 1942, because of the extremist communists policy.
2. The intro presents Axis Iron Cross information, but not Allies Karađorđe star information.
3. The intro accuses Đurišić for massacre of Muslims, but fails to explain that he protected population of Montenegro from communist massacres, such as in Kolašin.
4. The intro also gives misleading and factually incorrect information. The uprising was not in Italian xzy. It was against Italian forces. The entity in which July uprising began was not in the Italian governorate of Montenegro but Independent state of Montenegro proclaimed on 12 July 1941.--Antidiskriminator (talk) 16:11, 4 April 2014 (UTC) Done[reply]
- I don't believe it is appropriate to deal with these matters here, as it is a article talk page matter, but I will note that I do not consider the sources support User:Antidiskriminator's comments, and that he was previously ARBMAC banned from this article during its development and eventual promotion to FA (his ban was appealed and subsequently lifted). Some of the above points haven't even been raised on the article talk page. Peacemaker67 (send... over) 01:25, 5 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  - Incorrect. You proposed this intro/blurb here. It is different from article's lede and can only be discussed here.--Antidiskriminator (talk) 09:16, 5 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    - For the benefit of the other editors, I will briefly respond:

the image showing Đurišić and Biroli depicts Đurišić's collaboration with the Axis which represents the vast majority of his WWII activities, formally commencing in March 1942 and concluding (with the Italians) in May 1943 when he was captured by the Germans. He subsequently collaborated with the Germans from November 1943 until December 1944. The uprising against the Italians was put down within six weeks, so even if the low-level rebellion September to December 1941 was taken into account, it would mean he spent 13% of his time fighting during the uprising versus 87% of his time collaborating. It has been given appropriate weight in my view.
As was discussed at length on the article talk page months ago, his Iron Cross is highly notable, as Đurišić was the only Chetnik known to have been awarded one. The Star was awarded to quite a number of Chetnik leaders, and was a Yugoslav award, not a foreign enemy one. Again, a weight issue.
I have not seen any source that says that Đurišić protected the population from Partisan massacres in Kolašin. He re-captured Kolašin from them, that is not the same thing.
I will change the piped link to Montenegro which is the article that explains the occupation regime etc, but your comment does not reflect the reality that the "independent" state of Montenegro was stillborn, was never implemented (due to the uprising that occurred the following day) and the territory remained under military occupation throughout. Peacemaker67 (send... over) 09:59, 5 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

This dicussion is about blurb you proposed. Its text and picture which depicts Đurišićs collaboration with Italians.
1. Đurišić's collaboration with Italians lasted 14 months (March 1942-May 1943) in contrast to his anti-Italian period of 13 months (April 1941—March 1942). That is almost equal period.
2. Iron Cross has been awarded to millions of soldiers and officers. Karadjordje star to dozens. Just because you discussed your position somewhere does not mean that it received consensus.
3. No doubt that you know that Partisans in Montenegro, including Kolašin, pursued Leftist errors policy and killed hundreds of people until they were chased out from Montenegro by Chetniks, with Italian support.
4. You are welcome. I am glad I helped to resolve the issue with wrong name of the entity you proposed in the blur. Thank you for correcting this. The point was not only in the name of the entity. The point was that it is important to clarify that uprising was against Italians. Unless there is some particularly important reason not to clarify anti-Axis position of Đurišićs here?--Antidiskriminator (talk) 11:38, 5 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Support and agree with Cirt that the years of his birth and death should be included in the blurb. 23 editor (talk) 20:28, 4 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: Noticed that 13th Waffen Mountain Division of the SS Handschar (1st Croatian) is nominated for a specific date below - if both run, that makes two former-Yugoclovia/Germany WWII articles in a month. As the other has a specific date nom, I suggest that this one be kicked forward a few months. JMO. Montanabw^(talk) 21:26, 4 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
SUPPORT - Excellent bio. I think it's great we're spotlighting a big part of World War II with this bio and the 13th Waffen article that most people never hear about.--ColonelHenry (talk) 12:39, 5 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Scheduling, but with a cropped photo - at main page size, a TFA picture can't really tell a story by itself (and explaining the photo would take up too much of the blurb). Bencherlite ^Talk 07:47, 7 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]