Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Lewis W. Green/archive1

Lewis W. Green

Lewis W. Green (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

As of 19 May 2024, 04:08 (UTC), this page is active and open for discussion. An FAC coordinator will be responsible for closing the nomination.

• Featured article candidates/Lewis W. Green/archive1

Nominator(s): PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 01:07, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

I am excited to bring you my fourth FAC on a president of Centre College, this one about the school's fifth president and one of two members of its first graduating class. A skilled minister and educator, Lewis W. Green was president of Hampden–Sydney College in Virginia where he increased their enrollment and endowment and declined offer after offer from numerous other schools. After seven years there he departed for Kentucky's Transylvania University, though he stayed just over a year before returning to lead his alma mater. His five-plus-year term saw the outbreak of the Civil War and the school's use as a field hospital for both sides of the conflict at separate times. He died in office in 1863 after visiting injured soldiers and falling sick, and was buried a walking distance away from Centre in Bellevue Cemetery. Any and all comments and feedback, as always, are much appreciated! PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 01:07, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

Image review

• Suggest adding alt text

• File:Lewis_W._Green_grave.jpg needs a tag for the original work. Nikkimaria (talk) 05:03, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

@Nikkimaria alt text added. Do you think the little sculpture on the gravestone counts as an architectural work? I'm having trouble finding the applicable copyright category for it. PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 06:05, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

The whole stone would be a sculptural work. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:23, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

@Nikkimaria I'm not able to find a copyright template for sculptures separately so I have used {{PD-US-expired}}; does this suffice in this instance? PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 02:01, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

Yep. Nikkimaria (talk) 02:08, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

Ajpolino

Interesting article on a topic I knew nothing about. Minor comments at first readthrough. Will return for more, hopefully soon.

• "Green left Kentucky after a short time once again, this time in 1840..." suggest shortening to "Green again left Kentucky in 1840..." (or just "Green moved to Pittsburg..." or something like that)
• "board of trustees in short order."
• "institutions was Transylvania, who recruited" should it be "which recruited" since Transylvania is not a person (even though it's obviously standing in here for people associated with the school)?
• "After being elected president of Centre College in August 1857, Green accepted the position following his departure from Transylvania and entered office in January 1858." seems a lot of words to communicate something like "Green was elected president of Centre College, and took up the position in January 1858."
• "Kentucky as a consequence of being elected to teach at Centre" a bit clunky. Suggest "Kentucky when he was elected to teach at Centre"
• "The pair spent two weeks... Ullmann, and Wilhelm Gesenius." makes it sound like husband and wife both studied under these theologians. True? Or was it just husband?
• "he made the decision to emancipate his..." shorten to "he emancipated his..."?
• "go Green decided to free them..." shorten to "go Green freed them..."?
• "he recovered in a short time and was soon after back to preaching" had to read this twice to understand. Could we simplify to something like "he soon recovered and returned to preaching"?
• "devote himself in a full-time role to preaching" shorten to "devote himself to preaching full-time" (or something like that)?
• "He was a popular professor and preacher among students and rarely were there large-scale disagreements between the students and faculty" this reads oddly. What are you trying to get across with the second part? Seems like most schools would rarely have "large-scale disagreements between the students and faculty".
  • Removed that part. PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 16:35, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
• "in August 1851 he was successful... slavery in Washington, D.C." also odd to read. What does it mean to be "successful in debating" something?
  • I did word that kind of weird - I just meant that he was debating that issue and that he won the debate. It's not super relevant, though, so I removed it. PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 16:35, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
• What does "being withdrawn from the benefits of the... charter" mean?
• "It took until the 1954 election... for Hampden–Sydney to conduct an outside hire for president again." is this relevant? Maybe they just had internal candidates they happened to like for many years. It's not clear this belongs in a biography of Lewis Green.
  • I guess I felt like it showed that he was a sought-after leader who was a kind of exception to a norm for HSC - if you think it isn't relevant enough I can remove it though.
• "on which occasion he delivered an address which was untitled." is this important?
• "he led a campaign in support of the temperance movement and gave a lecture to the same effect." - do we need the note about the lecture? Seems like that could be considered part of his "campaign".
• "During this first year... the 1857–1858 academic year." not sure this is necessary information, especially since the school will be dissolved in the next sentence.
  • I have clarified that the first "the school" mentioned in the sentence was Transy, not just the normal school - I think a picture of how Transy was doing in the midst of this reorganization is relevant enough especially considering Green's time at the school was, in a way, defined by this period of change
• "His inaugural address was given on..." I'm not an anti-passive-voice person, but this instance seems to cry out to be reformulated to "He gave his inaugural address on..."
• "By April, just months after he had taken office, he was named..." don't need this clause – we remember his term start was January from just two sentences earlier.
• "this was a position he held until..." could be slightly snappier as "he held this position until..."
• "due to the Civil War and its proximity to Centre" due to the school's proximity to Centre? Or do to the Civil War's proximity to Centre (so to speak)?
  • The latter (Centre is the school) - I tried to expand on that in the following sentence PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 16:35, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
• "The college did not reopen until October 27 and thirteen days of classes were ultimately lost." seems unnecessarily repetitive, especially emphasizing a relatively short gap (I expected to read that the college remained closed until the war's end).
  • Removed second part. PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 16:35, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
• "main building, was still occupied; at one point" perhaps this sentence should say it was occupied and being used as a hospital. Then the next sentence wouldn't seem such a surprise.
• " autopsies in progress on their way to a professor's office" very strange way to end the section on his career. Perhaps the sources allow another sentence or two on Green's role during the civil war, and his involvement in the hospital operations that (presumedly) led to his death?
  • I have to run to class but I will take a look through the sources when I have some time later this afternoon. PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 16:35, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
• "Green is a member of the..." right before this, it would fit nicely to note that he and Lawrence (I assume) had X children together (two?) so it doesn't come as a surprise that one married into a political family.
• "This period of illness... biographer Leroy Halsey." suggesting moving this up a half-sentence so that it precedes "he died...".

@Ajpolino: Thank you for the review! I won't have a ton of time with my computer this weekend so I am hoping to address your comments by tomorrow or Monday - apologies for the delay. PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 16:33, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

@Ajpolino: I believe everything has been changed or responded to (save for one thing)! Thanks again! PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 16:35, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

@Ajpolino I added a sentence about what he was doing at the school and in town during this time, is there anything else you'd recommend there? PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 21:41, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Pardon my absence! I'll take another readthrough in the next few days, and then I expect to support. Ajpolino (talk) 17:31, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

Source review by Generalissima

Oh, obscure 19th century American figure? This is exactly my wheelhouse. I'll look through these sources in a little bit. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 17:32, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

Comments by Dugan Murphy

I'll write some out here. Dugan Murphy (talk) 22:12, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

• The mention of "Judge John Green" without any further biographical information is frustrating to me as a reader. Is his first name Judge? If Judge is his title, can you make that clear by adding just a phrase about the circumstances of this judgeship? How did such a seemingly young person get to be a judge?
  • Removed his name, wasn't really relevant. PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 03:46, 16 May 2024 (UTC)
• "renowned teachers" looks like MOS:SCAREQUOTES. If this is a quote from a person, the text needs to state attribution, per MOS:QUOTE. Same for "malignant fever", "influential gentlemen", "the whole Man", "prominent men", and "advanced stage".
  • Removed some, attributed some. PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 03:46, 16 May 2024 (UTC)
• "His first education came ... by way of" reads awkwardly to me and requires some mental gymnastics for me to understand. I recommend rewording that sentence, considering the possibility of breaking it into two sentences. It might read more like "At thirteen, he began studying Greek and Latin at a classical school".
  • Reworded as part of the above. PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 03:46, 16 May 2024 (UTC)
• Note A looks like WP:ORIGINALRESEARCH. What source says he did not attain a graduate degree from another institution?
  • Removed. PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 03:46, 16 May 2024 (UTC)
• This sentence clause doesn't make sense: "but did not graduate from either after returning to Kentucky when he was elected to teach at Centre". Could you clarify?
  • Done. PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 03:46, 16 May 2024 (UTC)
• The way this sentence reads, it says Green was in multiple places on one day: "preached in Danville, its surroundings, and elsewhere in Kentucky on nearly every Sunday". I don't think that's what you mean, so I recommend a rewording.
• The last sentence of the "Professor and pastor in Danville" section contains a list of incongruous clauses: "was elected", "returned", and "appointed". You could change "returned" to "reappointed" for instance, though maybe that doesn't sound well given the last clause.
• Wikilink Presbyterian polity#General assembly?
• I think Manumission is a more appropriate word and Wikilink than emancipation here.
• "his 25 to 30 slaves" would read better as "the 25 to 30 people he enslaved".
• Is the purpose of "his move from Kentucky, a slave state, to Pennsylvania, a free state," to illustrate that Green's decision to manumit the laborers he enslaved was made for him by geography? If so, I recommend making that clear.
• "willing to go Green" – a comma is needed after "go".
• "freed them as they were" reads ambiguous to me. If I understand correctly, it sounds more appropriate to say "allowed them to stay in the US".
• "he was well-loved" is an opinion that I think should be attributed.
• Typo: "returnedf"
• "had increased" – delete "had".
• Political economy is WP:DUPLINKed.
• In general, I think this article overuses the semicolon. I recommend replacing with periods in instances in which they make a sentence too long and/or the two halves of the sentences they link are not closely related.
• The sentence that begins "This became a theme" is too long and unwieldy, particularly because of the double-dashed "and did".
• I'm not sure that "large majorities" needs quotation marks. It seems like a statement that we should be free to say without, given the attribution you gave.
• Does "bringing 300 new students to the school" refer to Centre College? That kind of wording seems out of place given the previous sentences were about the Second Presbyterian Church and the First Presbyterian Church. And then the next sentence refers to something being close to Centre, so apparently we're not talking about Centre here.
• It's not as specific, but I think changing "the year before the war's start" to "before the war" would make this sentence easier to read.
• "57 two" – having these two numbers next to each other is not ideal.
• I think "acquired more slaves; he owned ten" would read better as "enslaved more people; he enslaved ten".
• Note B: I don't think the parenthetical dates are necessary. Those dates are in the inline citations.
• Do the sources say anything about the people enslaved by Green not included here? Perhaps what they did for him? That would help in describing and humanizing them.
• With the exception of Bascom and Young, the predecessors and successors in the infobox are nowhere in the article. I think you should add them to the article if they're going to be in the infobox.
  • @Dugan Murphy: many thanks for your review - I am currently finishing up finals week at school so I hope to have time to address your comments by tomorrow afternoon. PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 17:49, 14 May 2024 (UTC)