Talk:Theodor Herzl/Archive 1

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Archive 1

Did he say it?

“It is essential that the sufferings of Jews.. . become worse. . . this will assist in realization of our plans. . . I have an excellent idea. . . I shall induce anti-Semites to liquidate Jewish wealth. . . The anti-Semites will assist us thereby in that they will strengthen the persecution and oppression of Jews. The anti-Semites shall be our best friends”.

I read that this was a quote by Theodor Herzel. Does anyone know if this is true?

I am quite sure he neither said nor meant it. It is absolutely out of character; Herzl was a man of grandiose visions, stressing the positive to the point of one-sidedness. One of the problems with these "quotes" is that they might be quoted as quote from somewhere else, and to find out you have to follow this chain up backwards to the original source, which is both tedious and difficult, and often impossible.
He did say it. It's in his published diaries. One would need to read it to see whether he was serious, or if it was an outburst along the lines of, "This isn't working, I should do something crzy." He suffered from depression so an outburst is possible. 88.155.212.99 17:46, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
Nonsense. Give the exact quote, with page, source etc., so others can check it. What Herzl has said was that he considers (I quote from memory) antisemitism a kind of "character-training" for Jews - which is in line with is tendency to always stress the positive and has nothing to do with the conspiracy-rant ascribed to him above. (Fuxmann)
Theodor Herzl: Diary, Part I, pg 16. See also pg 68.
More here: http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/zionism/zanda.cfm 81.158.224.8 13:06, 27 August 2007 (UTC)Alice (I don't have an account, sorry)
You find these "quotes" on the "Jews-Against-Zionism"'s webpage, but not on the places mentioned above in Herzl's diaries, which can be found on http://www.literature.at/webinterface/library/ALO-BOOK_V01?objid=12794&zoom=1&ocr=&page=16&gobtn=Go%21 (the original pagination on the bottom of the page differs from the digital pagination in the search mask) . Fuxmann 05:37, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
I don't know if there was a typo or if the link is to the edited diaries or what, but I have heard from reliable and zionist sources that he said such things. Don't have any confirmation sources though, but If someone is better than I at searching The Jewish Press' archives, I believe there was an article last year on the subject.173.54.16.169 (talk) 01:48, 23 April 2010 (UTC)
That's exactly what I mean: Somebody insinuates "somewhere, something, somehow..." and nonsense becomes truth or at least probability. Please check the German original. Fuxmann (talk) 13:57, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

English translation

"From April, 1896, when the English translation of his Der Judenstaat ("The Jewish State") appeared,"

is it correct to say that the English translation was so important? I was under the impression that Zionism pre-WWI was mostly a German and Eastern European project. Dinopup 17:16, 13 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Category:Wagnerites

Would someone like to explain in what way Herzl was a "Wagnerite"? Tomertalk 01:31, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Herzl and Rhodes

Does anyone mention the relationship between Herzl and Cecil Rhodes? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.231.232.97 (talk • contribs) 00:57, 25 June 2006

Herzl's untimely death

It occurs to me that this article is leaving out a huge detail, namely, why did Herzl die at the age of 44? Was it by an accident, or was he murdered?

The popular opinion is that he died out of depression after not succeeding to persuade neither the Turks or the Germans to give the Jews territory in Palestine. TFighterPilot 22:21, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

I was under the impression that the popular opinion was that he died because he had a weak heart and he insisted on working to hard trying to get his work done. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.70.48.216 (talk) 04:38, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

Prior to 1896 & link to ProtoZionists

The Herzl timeline here is excellent and contains a good deal of detail on Herzls activity (prior to April 1896 the point at which this article currently dates his political work). Unfortunately there is nothing in the current article (or much in the Herzl timeline) about Herzls petitioning of the Rothschilds. eg.

"Originally he [Herzl] had hoped to influence the Rothschild family to support the building of a Jewish State, but when this plan failed he turned to the general public. Der Judenstaat, an elaboration of his Address to the Rothschilds [this is what originally appears in Hrzl's diary as ""Rede an die Rothschilds"], sets forth his proposal for a Jewish State." source

Previous petitions to influential families such as the Rothschild by Proto Zionist like Zvi Hirsch Kalischer were made in a similar vein. Is it possible someone can include some detail on this early work? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.29.226.213 (talk) 22:34, 31 December 2006 (UTC).

City of Birth

Herzl is usually said to be born in Budapest but in this article, it says that he was born in Zemun. Does anyone has a source for that information ? Abrahami 22:55, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

this is a misunderstanding. He was born in Pest, but his forefathers were born in Zemun. Added source from Jewish Encyclopedia and removed [citation needed]Hollomis (talk) 16:40, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

Image:Herzldohanyi.jpg

I find it quite odd that three languages are represented at this plaque, but not Herzl's own language. Harry Barrow (talk) 12:00, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

family

I removed the following statement from the article;

In 2006 the remains of two of his children were moved from Bordeaux, France, and placed alongside their father.<ref>Herzl's children reburied in Israel. [http://www.cjnews.com/viewarticle.asp?id=10234&s=1 Canadian Jewish News 28 September 2006]</ref>

The link is dead and the article name isn't given, so unfortunately I can't chase it down to see what it actually said. But I have stood next to Herzl's tomb on top of Mt. Herzl, and I can say definitively that there are none others around it- it is completely solitary. So even if his children were moved there, the wording would need to be changed so that it does not seem like they were buried directly beside him, because unless their graves are unmarked, I don't think that this was the case.

Of course, one other possibility does exist- the words on the tomb read just "הרצל" (Herzl), and nothing else. So could it be possible that the remains of more then one person from the Herzl family are interred within there? Somebody would need to clarify. Rudy Breteler (talk) 04:40, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Yes, the cjnews link is now dead. However I Googled "Herzl Bordeaux" and found many others. The first two are http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/764120.html and http://www.jewishagency.org/JewishAgency/English/Home/About/Chairman/Archive/2006/sep25.htm. Both confirm the reburial of the children, and the second is by a participant to the ceremony in Bordeaux. As for the inscription, I would assume that it was made years ago when only the father was buried there, and that it was decided not to change it for the 2006 reburial of the children.

Perhaps you would like to reinsert the statement with reference to these links (or others which are still active) to replace the cjnews link. Dirac66 (talk) 16:24, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Trivia

Jenő Heltai (born: Eugen Herzl; 1871-1957), the great hungarian writer and poet was his cousin. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.182.236.34 (talk) 20:48, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Theodor Herzl even offered his obviously literary gifted cousin, then still "Eugen Herzl", a job at his newspaper - which the ardent Hungarian nationalist declined. He did not want to write in German. Fuxmann (talk) 07:57, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Hungarian Jewish not Austrian?

You should change the initial description to Hungarian Jewish not Austrian Jewish...? Herzl was definitely a Hungarian Jew...or do you know something I don't know? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hkp-avniel (talk • contribs) 14:21, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

When Herzl was born Pest-Buda (later Budapest) was part of the Habsburg Empire, later - in 1867 - this became the Austrio-Hungarian Monarchy. Definitely not the Kingdom of Hungary. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.110.144.248 (talk) 06:08, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

A few small things

  1. Can somebody add the date of death of his wife? Since we have all these interesting details about his family, this is a detail we must have.
  2. Can somebody add the dates of birth of his children?
  3. How come his son converted to Catholicism? Compare this with the discussion in the previous section which claims he was interested in Judaism rather than being atheist.

Debresser (talk) 19:22, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

I am more than suprised that no Zionist should be actively involved with making this article better since August 2009. Debresser (talk) 10:22, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

The marriage of Herzl was terrible; the son was circumcised when he was twelve - exactly in the course of the late "Judaizing" of the father described above, and the parental pressure on the son - whom Herzl imagined becoming the first "Doge" of the newly founded Jewish state - must have been heavy. And then he lost his father very early. So it can be easily imagined that he might have felt repelled by anything "Jewish" and tried to find solace in Christianity. Something similar is happening today in Germany, where the daughter of a highly respected leader of German Jewry has become what politely can only be described as "highly critical" of Israel and World-Jewry - complete with fantasies of Jewish world-conspiracy. Fuxmann (talk) 17:52, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

Debresser - the page is being improved. More to do. 7-31-2010

Style

The article is badly written, with peculiar tenses and awkward repetitions. It needs a good cleanup. Marshall46 (talk) 10:55, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Another issue is the fact that the article uses the present tense almost exclusively from the point of Der Judenstaad. This style of writing should probably be avoided in an encyclopedia. Joefromrandb (talk) 16:52, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
I noted this in reading the article today, so I'm adding a clean-up tag to it. Clarkefreak ∞ 21:49, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

Merger after AfD

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Herzl family closed with the following statement (paraphrased): "Merge to Theodor Herzl, to be carried out by Hasirpad".

I am, however, taking the liberty of redirecting only, because, as the article is a (polished version of a rough) translation of the Hebrew article, I feel that it would be simpler (attribution-wise) to redirect and add an {{expand Hebrew}} tag to the Family section, especially since the material at Herzl family is poorly sourced and has only small details worthy of adding to this article.

הסרפד (Hasirpad) [formerly Ratz...bo] 05:53, 28 December 2012 (UTC)

Herzl's opinion of the United States

Was he pro-American, neutral/indifferent, or anti-American? Does he even mention the country that would become his dream nation's greatest funder? -96.26.108.183 (talk) 01:07, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

really really not important

"If His Majesty the Sultan were to give us Palestine, we could in return undertake to regulate the whole finances of Turkey. We should there form a portion of a rampart of Europe against Asia, an outpost of civilization as opposed to barbarism. We should as a neutral State remain in contact with all Europe, which would have to guarantee our existence".

Theodore Herzl, The Jewish State, 1896. Translated from the German by Sylvie D’Avigdor. Translation published by the American Zionist Emergency Council, 1946.

37.142.169.207 (talk) 07:57, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

Request for Comments

There is an RfC on the question of using "Religion: None" vs. "Religion: None (atheist)" in the infobox on this and other similar pages.

The RfC is at Template talk:Infobox person#RfC: Religion infobox entries for individuals that have no religion.

Please help us determine consensus on this issue. --Guy Macon (talk) 00:50, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

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Vandals in action

Lede and infobox have been vandalized, and the infobox image is missing. A fantasy given name and an unwarranted "e" in family name has been put in |name and |image tags. Carlotm (talk) 08:01, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected for a week. Zerotalk 08:12, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

Cleanup

This page is in dire need of cleanup. I went ahead and made some obvious changes to start things, and I wanted to explain them in order to avoid confusion, make my intentions clear, and hopefully enlist support in continuing to fix up this article which I believe is an important one that is strangely in bad shape and seems to have been suffering from neglect since its creation.

I moved the 'literary' section out of the death and burial section, which I am very surprised it was in for so long as it made absolutely zero sense, into the writing section as that seemed the most reasonable choice. I then separated the comment about Altneuland from the list of works and moved it to a relevant part of the former literary section. This allowed me to create a separate subsection simply for the list of works that he has written. The Jewish State was also listed twice, so I removed the second one.

I believe a writing section which discusses his works in more detail than the Zionism section earlier in the article kind of makes sense, as his books cover a lot of material and more should be discussed than what a general overview would provide. However, his two main books do already have articles themselves so it is possible that a better solution would be simply to incorporate the most important aspects into the earlier Zionism section and remove the rest so further information can be seen on their separate articles.

As for the next stage, there are far too many quotes in this article and most should be removed in favor of more summary statements. I will work on this later if no one else does it.

Zanthos (talk) 07:28, 28 October 2016 (UTC)

I ended up heavily editing and rearranging the Zionist intellectual and activist section first, which was in total disarray with conflicting Dreyfus arguments mixed in with each other and randomly talked about again after the section had moved on to other topics, which was most likely the result of a mistake during sequential edits where it got displaced. I believe the section is vastly improved now, but I welcome comments to the contrary pointing out any issues. I'm sure it's not perfect yet and can still be improved. Also, there was a line with no reference mentioning that he emigrated to Britain in 1896 and I could find no sources to verify this, so I removed it. It seemed to be false since I found sources saying he still lived in Vienna after 1896.

I'll get to summarizing the quotes soon, starting with the A philosophy for a homeland section.

Zanthos (talk) 07:29, 4 November 2016 (UTC)

typo

Since the article is currently protected from editing, I would like to report a spelling error here:

Mahnruf an seine Stammesgenossen von einem nassichen Juden → Mahnruf an seine Stammesgenossen von einem russischen Juden

(von einem russischen Juden = from (or by) a Russian Jew) --94.134.222.166 (talk) 21:56, 29 August 2017 (UTC)

Dreyfus Affair

It is significant (and good) to see an accurate if slightly controversial (to some) reference to the Dreyfus Affair in this article. I studied the history of Zionism at university, and have long held the belief that this affair had a very minor impact on Herzl, and that he may have later exploited the matter for his own political ends. He did indeed think initially that Dreyfus was guilty and showed almost no concern for the case, yet later wrote that Dreyfus was innocent not because the charges were part of an anti-semetic conspiracy (even though that was indeed the major factor), but because, as a Jew holding an office of responsibility and public service, he could not possibility have commited any crime in the first place: he wrote "A Jew who, as an officer on the general staff, has before him an honorable career, cannot commit such a crime . . . The Jews, who have so long been condemned to a state of civic dishonor, have, as a result, developed an almost pathological hunger for honor, and a Jewish officer is in this respect specifically Jewish." Source: biography of Herzl (based on that by Alex Bein) included in translation of Der Judenstaat ("The Jewish State") (Dover; ISBN 0-486-25849-1) 86.17.246.110 12:33, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

The way this issue is taught, and popularly referred to, in Israel is that Herzl was not concerned at all by whether Dreyfus was guilty or not. What did shock him was the fact that the crowds were shouting "death to the Jews", as if all Jews were guilty, even though only one person was on trial. It was witnessing this event that caused him to understand that the Jews have no future in Europe (since Antisemitism is not rational and therefore cannot be rationally combatted), and therefore they must live in a land of their own.
-Sangil 01:23, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
May I add parenthetically you seem to have missed the point about Herzl thinking that Dreyfus had to be innocent because he was Jewish. Isn't that just as bad as thinking that he had to be guilty because he was Jewish? Hardly a rational opinion - his views (reported and cited above) were equally bigoted as the baying crowd's. I'd say that is something which should be included in any teachings of the case: you wouldn't qoute an anti-Semite in an essay criticising Judaism, would you. 86.7.208.240 23:18, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
As no-one had bothered to reply, and there are no sources to back the "Dreyfus Affair did not affect Hertzl" claim, I have commented it out. Please bring relevant sources before re-inserting it into the article.
-Sangil 17:37, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
On searching for sources with the keywords Dreyfus and Herzl, I have actually been finding more stating that it did not affect him very significantly than those saying it did. In any case, I will edit the article to reflect the varying scholarly opinions on the matter (with references) as it seems clear that it will be unlikely to arrive at a consensus on this matter. It is best to reveal all sides of the story in this case.
Also, although it is not relevant to these changes, I believe it is important to state that the quote from Herzl pasted by the original creator of this section does not exactly say that Dreyfus must have been innocent because he is a Jew, rather it seems like a statement about his character. Herzl's argument about how the honorable nature of Dreyfus' character exists and likely derives from him being Jewish is certainly up for debate, but this by no means warrants claiming Herzl was bigoted. Indeed, belonging to a particular religion or identifying with a racial group can certainly affect one's character, and it makes sense that Herzl would believe there could have been a positive effect from this.
Zanthos (talk) 05:36, 4 November 2016 (UTC)

Hi, was happy to read the nuanced view of the Dreyfus' affair on Herzl. Another point worth mentioning is that Herzl left his position as Paris correspondent for the Neue Freie Presse in the summer of 1895, before the affair became more vocally antisemitic. [1] In any case, the article should be edited, because from the article it seems that he was the correspondent till 1906...Domberlic (talk) 14:29, 27 August 2017 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ Shlomo Avineri, Herzl, Shazar Center, 2007, p. 64 (published in Hebrew)

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Atheist

The text currently says: "In spite of his Jewish ethnicity, Herzl was an avowed atheist." However, the note in question (Note #1) establishes only that someone asserted that Herzl was a "self-confessed atheist," it does not establish that as a fact. --DieWeisseRose (talk) 05:39, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Judaism, as his life and writings make abundantly clear, meant more to Herzl than ethnicity. Herzl was no atheist - rather a late self-discovering Jew. In his later years he consciously adapted many Jewish religious laws and customs into his personal life and that of his family. (Fuxmann (talk) 07:31, 1 March 2009 (UTC))

Fuxmann, do you have sources for that? Debresser (talk) 01:16, 10 December 2009 (UTC)
How would someone's being an atheist have anything to do with their being Jewish? Many Jews are atheists. It doesn't stop them from being Jewish. Bus stop (talk) 01:27, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

Herzl's adaption of many Jewish religious laws into his later personal life is well documented in Amos Elon's Herzl-biography, his diaries and many anecdotes, as is his positive attitude towards religious Judaism, even if he never pretended or wanted to live as an orthodox Jew himself. But this has nothing to do with the "atheism" attributed to him by enemies of his political beliefs. I have not found anything remotely resembling a "confession of atheism" anywhere in his mature writings.Fuxmann (talk) 19:00, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

According the the World Zionist Organisation, Herzl's belief system was Spinozism:

When I say God I do not mean to offend the freethinkers. For my part they can say World Spirit or any other term in place of this beloved old wonderful abbreviation by which I touch the simplest understanding. For in our theological battle of words we ultimately mean the same thing. In belief or in doubt we mean the same thing: that it is inexplicable.

and

My conception of God is ...Spinozistic and approaches the natural philosophy of the monists. But Spinoza's "substance" seems to me something...inert and the universal ether of the monists, besides being incomprehensible, is too intangible and contrived. But I can conceive of an omnipresent Will, for I see it at work in the world we know. I see it as I can see the functioning of a muscle. The world is a body and God is the functioning of it.

Unfortunately, this is not a good source. [1] Individualiste (talk) 16:01, 5 April 2018 (UTC)

There is a cited scource that says that Theordor Herzl was an atheist. [2]

Personally I think that Herzl might be an atheist even though He had respect for Judaism.However it was clear that Herzl wanted the Jewish state (Israel) to be entirely secular,not a theocracy. Coolguy10038 (talk) 05:42, 17 March 2019 (UTC)

Consider this quote:

"When I remember thee in days to come, O Jerusalem, it will not be with pleasure. The musty deposits of 2,000 years of inhumanity, intolerance, and uncleanliness lie in the foul-smelling alleys".... The amiable dreamer of Nazareth has only contributed to increasing the hatred.... What superstition and fanaticism on every side!"

-- Theodor Herzl, after a visit to Jerusalem in 1898, from James A. Haught, ed., 2000 Years of Disbelief


Herzl was probably critical of Christianity ,probably because of antisemitism.. WHEN Herzl mentions God, he probably meant symbolicly or in a different way not a literal way. You probably should see this list. List of Jewish atheist and agnostics.Coolguy10038 (talk) 05:42, 17 March 2019 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ http://www.wzo.org.il/index.php?dir=site&page=articles&op=item&cs=3368&language=eng
  2. ^ David S. New (2013). Holy War. McFarland. ISBN 9781476603919. Herzl, for example, was an atheist.

Hebrew name & minimising Herzl's importance

Who is trying to unnecessarily "re-Judaise" Herzl by stressing his brit-milah name as birth name? He lived, and signed his works, and is known among Israeli and Diaspora Jews - not to mention all non-Jews - under his civil registration name of Theodor (Theodore, Tivadar) Herzl, period. This effort goes along the line of calling all secular and atheist Zionists "the Messiah's donkey", i.e.: they helped fulfill religious prophecies w/o being conscious of it, which is highly offensive. This is WP, not some ghetto pashkevil.

The same goes for the attempts of minimising his importance and primacy as THE cathalyst of practical, modern, political Zionism, in favour of religious predecessors, such as the rabbis Bibas, Kalischer and Alkalai. This article is the wrong place for reviving and battling out the ideological struggle between Old Yishuv and New Yishuv, as the State of Israel as a modern state is undoubtedly the result of the efforts of activists not moved by religious, but by secular political ideologies. All else is messianic interpretation, not fact.Arminden (talk) 09:29, 11 December 2017 (UTC)

Actually, it is not as simple as you say. Like all Jews, Herzl received a Hebrew name and that name was later used by him as a pen name. He signed his articles in Die Welt using his Hebrew name, Binyamin Zeev. See here: https://books.google.co.il/books?id=WTIqAAAAQBAJ&pg=PT118&lpg=PT118&dq=binyamin+ze%27ev+herzl+pen+name&source=bl&ots=wDFR9GXTXh&sig=oWBD9yLAzmagQYmZKQXmCrha4SA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi_ut6gjIXYAhXjC8AKHT_GCC8Q6AEISTAE#v=onepage&q&f=true

Best, --Geewhiz (talk) 18:29, 12 December 2017 (UTC)

His report on the first Zionist Congress in the first issue of Die Welt has "Dr. Theodor Herzl". He also appears as Theodor Herzl in the Protocols of each of the first 18 Zionist Congresses (as far as I checked). Zerotalk 05:49, 1 July 2020 (UTC)

Etymology and meaning of the name "Herzl"

Someone should probably add the following:

Herzl's paternal family hailed from Hungarian Slovenia and had migrated to Bohemia in 1739. Under Emperor Joseph II, they were required to Germanise their family name Loeb (from Hebrew Lev, meaning "heart") to Herzl (German for "little heart", the addition of the letter "l" being a diminutive suffix in German and Yiddish alike).

Source: https://books.google.be/books?id=31LMY9S8IBIC&pg=PA77&lpg=PA77&dq=Herzl+little+heart&source=bl&ots=00Choa_e03&sig=nsRetNmY6j25D31nEXzawnvi6i8&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiimKaRvePWAhUC1RoKHeg5BKAQ6AEIJzAA#v=onepage&q=Herzl%20little%20heart&f=false — Preceding unsigned comment added by 158.169.40.6 (talk) 12:12, 9 October 2017 (UTC)

הֶרְצְל NOT הֶרְצֵל — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.250.160.143 (talk) 15:03, 23 June 2018 (UTC)

done Nissimnanach (talk) 13:40, 7 May 2021 (UTC)Nissimnanach

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Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 19 May 2018

5.29.34.74 (talk) 17:00, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. — IVORK Discuss 17:35, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 10 June 2018

Thread retitled from "Remove claim of Sephardic ancestry. The links are not reliable nor are they properly sourced. All credible academic and official sources on Herzl's background dont list him as anything other than Ashkenazi, with no reference to Sephardic blood. By culture and upbringing he was an German-speaking Ashkenazi Jew.".

Please remove references to alleged "Sephardic ancestry." The sources are not properly referenced or credible. Scarsdale.vibe (talk) 07:08, 10 June 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: I found a likely reliable secondary source by Shimon Peres for the assertion. ∰Bellezzasolo✡ Discuss 21:54, 20 June 2018 (UTC)

It should be הֶרְצְל not הֶרְצֵל.

Can someone change it? א. א. אינסטלציה (talk) 17:18, 26 June 2018 (UTC)

Hello?! א. א. אינסטלציה (talk) 16:18, 25 September 2018 (UTC)

It's a mistake. Please... Just change it א. א. אינסטלציה (talk) 16:19, 25 September 2018 (UTC)

I'm not sure this is consistent - I see הֶרְצְל and הֶרְצֶל (but I haven't seen הֶרְצֵל) - however I changed this to הֶרְצְל as I do see sources using this (but not צֶ). Icewhiz (talk) 06:44, 14 March 2019 (UTC)

herzl lived in the 7th district, not 5th district

the dohány utcai zsinagogá is located in erzsébetváros, which is the 7th district.

(jews were thrown out of hungary by the austrians. when they returned to hungary, the austrians did not want the jews to live in the cities. therefore the jews build a new district, just outside the citywalls.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jurasmerga (talk • contribs) 17:32, 15 June 2019 (UTC)

Burial Place of Theidor Herzl on 23 May 2021

IF POSSIBLE ADD IN SECTION "DEATH AND BURIAL" IN ENTRY ON THEIDOR HERZL

First buried at the Viennese cemetery in the district of Döbling (add aource here), in 1949....

SOURCE: Tim Corbett: “Was ich den Juden war, wird eine kommende Zeit besser beurteilen...”. Myth and Memory at Theodor Herzl's Original Gravesite in Vienns, in: S:I.M.O.N. - SHOAH: INTERVENTION. METHODS. DOCUMENTATION 3 (2016) 1, 64-88. Porteno79 (talk) 19:24, 23 May 2021 (UTC)

Z Porteno79 (talk) 19:25, 23 May 2021 (UTC)

Please add if possible

 Done Run n Fly (talk) 15:46, 24 May 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request

The article states that in Der Judenstaat Herzl said the Jewish people should leave Europe for Palestine, their historic homeland. This is imprecise: as the article on Der Judenstaat correctly states, Herzl wrote that the Jewish people should leave Europe for a state of their own, and lists Palestine and Argentina as possible sites. He does describe Palestine as "our unforgettable historic homeland" that would be a rallying cry for the Jewish people.Isidorpax2 (talk) 23:13, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

I have some necessary information about "Mr. Theodor Herzl", so please give me edit permission. ali haider amrohawala 10:23, 17 April 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. – Jonesey95 (talk) 13:17, 17 April 2020 (UTC)

Literatur

  • Felix Czeike: Historisches Lexikon Wien, Band 2. Verlag Kremayr & Scheriau, Wien 1993, ISBN 3-218-00547-7, S. 46f.
  • Werner T. Bauer: Wiener Friedhofsführer. Genaue Beschreibung sämtlicher Begräbnisstätten nebst einer Geschichte des Wiener Bestattungswesens. Falter Verlag, Wien 2004, ISBN 3-85439-335-0.
  • Hans Pemmer / Ninni Lackner: Der Döblinger Friedhof. Seine Toten, seine Denkmäler. Wien: Rausch 1947
  • Tim Corbett: “Was ich den Juden war, wird eine kommende Zeit besser beurteilen...”. Myth and Memory at Theodor Herzl's Original Gravesite in Vienns, in: Vol 3 No 1 (2016): S:I.M.O.N. SHOAH: INTERVENTION. METHODS. DOCUMENTATION 3 (2016) 1, 64-88.
Porteno79 (talk) 19:26, 23 May 2021 (UTC)

Hebrew and English translations of Herzl's Solon in Lydien

The English translation is my own creation, so if someone else deems it satisfactory, please link to it as an reference.

English: https://tddpirate.zak.co.il/third-level-richness/solon-in-lydia-by-theodor-herzl-english-translation/

Hebrew (not relevant in the English Wikipedia, could be relevant in he.wikipedia.org): https://benyehuda.org/read/18025 Tddpirate (talk) 00:07, 12 May 2022 (UTC)

Antisemitism

This quote was in the anti-Zionism article. Don't think it belongs there, as nothing to do with anti-Zionism, but should probably be in this article. See previous article for sourcing: "Herzl believed that the anti-Semitism of his day contained certain elements of what he called 'legitimate self-defense,' for emancipated Jews were particularly well-suited for commerce and the professions, thus creating 'fierce competition' with bourgeois Gentiles...Herzl believed that anti-Semites themselves would appreciate the desirability and feasibility of the Zionist project and would gladly help ensure a smooth transfer of unwanted Jews from Europe to Palestine." (Penslar 2006, pp. 13–14) BobFromBrockley (talk) 10:41, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

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