Talk:Life zones of the Mediterranean region

Armeria pusilla ?!

This plant is mentioned as an indicator plant in the Alpine vegetation belt, Corsica section, but does not seem to exist - at least, I have been unable to find any reference to it.

Can someone who knows more than myself about Corsican flora and life zones please find the correct information? jw (talk) 22:14, 13 July 2019 (UTC)

Southern side of the alps

Greetings! The southern side of the Alps does not seem me to fit the Mediterranean zone classification. In fact, not even at the sea level (except near the lakes) Olive trees and Holm Oaks can grow in Switzerland or Northern Italy. Bosnian Pine seem to be limited to the Southernmost italians regions, as well as Southeastern Mediterranean Mountains. Most of the trees of the Southern Alpine side seem to be the same of the 'East Alps' classification (with possible small altitude changes, mostly between Western and Eastern Alps) than 'Mediterranean', where it's mentioned as an example. Would you have the references? Thank you.

It is a translation of the german version. The references are there too. You better read the introduction too. Of course Venice does not have an eumediterranean climate. The sea level between Venice and Triest is the coldest part of the Mediterranean Sea !!! "not even at the sea level (except near the lakes) Olive trees and Holm Oaks can grow in ...Northern Italy", you are forgetting Genoa and underestimating a wind protected south slope. The Mediterranean climate is warmer and dryer than Central Europe ones, this gives a shift of altitude were the vegetation grow, a transition (ecotone) and sclerophyll vegetation appears. The whole world is not suddendly upside down.

You must remember 100 km on the North-South direction (Latitude), is equivalent to 100 m altitude, or 0.49°C annual mean temperature (in Germany). The graph on the Pinus pinea distribution on the polish version and the graph on the olive crop distribution are good guides too. The eumediterranean climate does not exist north of the alps, the others are not really far away of the north side ones. Drier a lil bit, surely at the summer, less cloudy, warmer a lil bit. There is simply not a black and white thing, it goes from gray to gray. Ecotone to ecotone. It is always a simplification, a compromise. [Triest, IT; annual mean temperature 14.4°C; 950 km southwards; Gela, IT; annual mean temperature 17.3°C: this gives about 0.305°C/ 100 km North- South direction.]--Chris.urs-o (talk) 05:57, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

The moutain tops worldwide are very similar. Here a virtual mountain on the Equator (12 hours night) in the Amazonian rainforest:

• Schneegrenze, Snow line, avg annual temperature -1°C. Snow & Ice & Rocks or Polar zone.
• Frostschuttwueste, alpine desert, frozen soil, avg annual temperature 0°C.
• Tundra or Alpine or Montane grasslands and shrublands zone.
• Growing climate for crops, avg annual temperature 5°C, avg low temperature above zero °C.
• Krummholz, Fir wave, scrubs and similars.
  • Baumgrenze, Tree line for Coniferae, avg annual temperature 10°C. Taiga or Boreal zone.
  • Timberline, more a Timber belt actually.
• Temperate zone (in the middle between the beginning of the Subtropics and the Tree line).
• Subtropical Cloud forest zone (5°C cooler than the Tropical Rainforest).
• Tropical Rainforest.

The problem I see are the examples it the 'Mediterranean Zone', that doesn't exist in the german page. You yourself say that Venice does not fit the Mediterranean classification, but it is mentioned there as an example.

Venice fits, it is just not eumediterranean climate. The examples are guides. Just the avg annual temperature and avg annual precipitation to orient yourself in the world. Just for comparison. The names are different, the temperatures the same. Just as Typhons, Hurricanes and Cyclones are the same too. Plants need a temperature and a precipitation, the language spoken does not matter.

Polar, Tundra, Taiga; Tropical Rainforest, Subtropical Cloud forest, Temperate Mixed forest, Alpine grasslands and Snowland. I wanted to show numbers, I wanted to substantiate the claims of the references. I translated the german mirror page to portuguese and english because I love continental divides. The Andean one, the Alpine one and the Colorado and Mississipi watershed.

I wanted to minimize the influence of the latitude. And I wanted to show both sides of the continental divide for comparison. That's why Venice is here, it shows the change of temperature by altitude, but is a colder spot of the Mediterranean Basin and so Genoa is now here too. And the temperature is not so far away, even in the south slope of the valley of the Mondego river, Portugal there are Olive tree orchards.--Chris.urs-o (talk) 07:13, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

It seems we have five isotherms around the globe, more or less so:

• Nival, Alpine desert, Alpine grassland border or Ice, Snow and Rocks; Tundra border; at the avg annual temperature of 0°C isotherme (frozen ground).
• Tree line for Coniferae with the correction for Permafrost by Otto Nordenskiöld; at the avg annual temperature of 10°C isotherme.
• Growing season limit for crops at avg low daily temperature of more than 0°C for 100 days isotherme; or at the tropics at avg low annual temperature of 0°C isotherme (frozen ground overnight).
• Tropics and Subtropics border at avg annual temperature of about 21°C isotherme (1,000 m above mean sea level at the Tropics).
• Subtropical and Temperate climate border at avg annual temperature of about [(21 + 10)/2]°C isotherme.

Same WWF Ecozones, same monthly avg temperature, same monthly avg precipitation, same other details, give a similar vegetation! ;-p --Chris.urs-o (talk) 09:57, 24 March 2009 (UTC)