Talk:Copia (museum)/GA1
GA Review[edit]
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Reviewer: Bob1960evens (talk · contribs) 21:43, 1 March 2016 (UTC)
I have read through the article and it looks to be in pretty good shape. I will work through it systematically, making notes as I go, and leaving the lead until last. Please indicate when you have addressed an issue, but please do not use strikethrough, as it makes the review difficult to read at a later date, and it is an important record of why the article was/was not awarded good article status. Bob1960evens (talk) 21:49, 1 March 2016 (UTC)
- There are three refs with redirects (they don't necessarily need fixing) and three Napa Valley Register refs (8, 22 and 44) are dead. Unfortunately, they are not archived on the Wayback Machine or on WebCite. (See external links in the GA toolbox)
- What are the refs with redirects? I only found one using the tool. Also, refs 8, 22, and 44 are working for me. I just saved them in the Internet Archive, so even if you couldn't view them before, you should be able to find them on IA now. ɱ (talk · vbm · coi) 01:38, 4 March 2016 (UTC)
- Today there are lots of dead Napa Valley Register refs reported. It seems to be something to do with the fact that you can only look at a fixed number of articles per month, and to view more, you need a subscription. Bob1960evens (talk) 23:33, 3 March 2016 (UTC)
Background[edit]
- "The museum attributed its high projected attendance falling short partially due to the depressed tourist economy stemming from the attacks." This does not quite make sense to me. How about: "The museum attributed the number of visitors falling short of their projections to the depressed tourist economy stemming from the attacks." or somesuch?
Conception and construction[edit]
- Is ...with urging from his wife... good American? It isn't good English. How about ...at the suggestion of his wife... or somesuch?
Decline and bankruptcy[edit]
- ...local residents' support... seems a bit clumsy. How about support by local residents...?
- Something is wrong with At the time, Copia had $68 ($74.7 million today[6]) million in debt. It would read better as ...Copia had $68 million ($74.7 million today[6]) in debt. Again, is "Copia had $68 million in debt" good American? I suggest "Copia had debts of £68 million" or similar.
- Similar issue with (with $80 ($87.9 million today[6]) million in debt). Suggest (with debts of $80 million ($87.9 million today))
- The New York Times and other newspapers described the museum's lack of focus and broad or unclear concept between serving as a museum, cooking school, and promotional center for wine is a single sentence paragraph, which is not recommended by WP:LAYOUT, and it doesn't quite make sense. See if you can expand it a little, and make it clearer.
- It's usually not recommended, however it stands alone in what it's conveying; I can't just tack it onto another paragraph that talks about something completely different. Practicality before guidelines, please. Cutting out words, the sentence says that the paper and others described the museum's unclear concept between serving as a museum and promotional center. Does that make sense? ɱ (talk · vbm · coi) 01:38, 4 March 2016 (UTC)
- I suggested expanding it a little, and making it clearer, not tacking it on to something else. How about: "Writing about the failure of the project, the New York Times and other newspapers suggested that Copia had failed to clearly define its focus. Potential tourists were left feeling unsure whether they were visiting a museum, a cooking school, or a promotional center for wine." Bob1960evens (talk) 00:14, 5 March 2016 (UTC)
- It's usually not recommended, however it stands alone in what it's conveying; I can't just tack it onto another paragraph that talks about something completely different. Practicality before guidelines, please. Cutting out words, the sentence says that the paper and others described the museum's unclear concept between serving as a museum and promotional center. Does that make sense? ɱ (talk · vbm · coi) 01:38, 4 March 2016 (UTC)
Aftermath[edit]
- the CIA's new Food Business School. The abbreviation CIA is introduced without a proper definition. It needs to be ...Culinary Institute of America (CIA)... earlier, so we know it is not a clandestine school.
- It's mentioned prominently in the previous sentence, so I wouldn't see why this should be necessary, but okay. ɱ (talk · vbm · coi) 01:38, 4 March 2016 (UTC)
- See Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style#Write_out_both_the_full_version_and_the_abbreviation_at_first_occurrence. It should be introduced as ...Culinary Institute of America (CIA)... on first occurrence, and after that you can use CIA on its own if you want to. In this case it is particularly important, because CIA means Central Intelligence Agency to most people, and that is where CIA takes you if you type it into Wikipedia.
- It's mentioned prominently in the previous sentence, so I wouldn't see why this should be necessary, but okay. ɱ (talk · vbm · coi) 01:38, 4 March 2016 (UTC)
- it was recently assessed for $21.3 million. Suggest adding a date, rather than "recently", as such terms are soon outdated, and the reader has no way of knowing when it was assessed.
Facilities[edit]
- The 12-acre (0.019 sq mi)... I am not sure why you have converted acres to square miles here and further down, when room sizes are quoted in imperial and metric (square feet and m3). I suggest using acres and hectares (ha) for international readers.
References[edit]
- Ref 9 does not appear to support "Mondavi chose the downtown Napa location, with urging from his wife, who raised her children there".
- Ref 10 quotes $55M startup with $70M bond. The article states $50M startup and $78M bond. (Ref 19 uses $55M and $78M)
- Ref 4 is used to support " In 2005, Copia sold 3.5 acres (0.0055 sq mi) to Intrawest for construction of a Westin hotel" but does not appear to.
- Ref 15 does not cover "Original projections of 300,000 admissions per year were never met". It needs a source.
- Which source do you want me to cite? Honestly information needs to be verifiable (able to be verified), it is not usually required to have a citation. Keep in mind this also predated my additions. ɱ (talk · vbm · coi) 02:05, 4 March 2016 (UTC)
- Any source that actually mentions the projection of 300,000 visitors will do. It is quite important in this instance, because presumably the costings were based on projected visitors. If the projection was 30,000, they would not have invested that much money. If it was 3,000,000 then you would suspect the whole basis for building it was flawed. As it was, they over-estimated the number of people who would turn up by a significant margin.
- Which source do you want me to cite? Honestly information needs to be verifiable (able to be verified), it is not usually required to have a citation. Keep in mind this also predated my additions. ɱ (talk · vbm · coi) 02:05, 4 March 2016 (UTC)
- Referring to your comment "Keep in mind this also predated my additions", a good article review is assessing the whole article, not just the bits that you personally worked on. If you nominate it for assessment, then I am afraid you take responsibility for what others may have added. I have tripped over this one once or twice myself in articles that I have nominated, but it is just part of the process. Bob1960evens (talk) 00:26, 5 March 2016 (UTC)
- Ref 20 does not cover "The museum closed on Friday, November 21, 2008". It just says November. (Refs 21 or 22 might do)
- Ref 26 does not cover "but their effort failed". (Ref 28 does)
- I was unable to check refs 44 and 45, as Napa Valley Register wanted me to buy a subscription. However, most of the refs are used correctly, so I have assumed that these two are also used correctly.
Lead[edit]
- The lead serves to introduce the subject and summarise the article. Deciding just how long it should be is a bit of a black art, but I think it needs just a little more detail to adequately summarise the article. Perhaps you could mention Robert Mondavi and the museum acting as a catalyst for the development of downtown Napa in the first paragraph, with the farmer's market, Napa Valley College getting the books, and the Smithsonian getting Julia's utensils in the second.
The formal bit[edit]
- It is reasonably well written.
- It is factually accurate and verifiable.
- a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):
- See comments above
- a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):
- It is broad in its coverage.
- a (major aspects): b (focused):
- It follows the neutral point of view policy.
- Fair representation without bias:
- Fair representation without bias:
- It is stable.
- No edit wars, etc.:
- No edit wars, etc.:
- It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
- a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
- a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
- Overall:
- Pass/Fail:
- Pass/Fail:
First pass done. I have got the references to check next, and then the lead. Bob1960evens (talk) 22:48, 1 March 2016 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks for reviewing this! I'll look over and reply to your comments more when I get home tonight. ɱ (talk · vbm · coi) 23:17, 2 March 2016 (UTC)
- That is the review done. All in all, a well written and closely referenced article, with just a few fairly minor issues to fix. I'll put it on hold. If you need any clarification, paste it here or on my talk page. Best regards. Bob1960evens (talk) 23:33, 3 March 2016 (UTC)
(←) Replied to all. ɱ (talk · vbm · coi) 23:13, 20 March 2016 (UTC)
- As all of the issues raised have now been addressed, I am awarding Good Article status to this article. Congratulations. Bob1960evens (talk) 22:42, 21 March 2016 (UTC)
- I am a bit unsure which subsection to list it under on the Wikipedia:Good_articles/Agriculture,_food_and_drink page. I have put it under "Food and Drink Companies", since that seems to be a slightly better fit than most of the other options, but am open to suggestions. Bob1960evens (talk) 22:57, 21 March 2016 (UTC)
- @Bob1960evens: I think that's appropriate. Thanks! ɱ (talk · vbm · coi) 23:55, 21 March 2016 (UTC)