Talk:Bozbash

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Food and drink

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Armenia

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Iran

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About the origin[edit]

@Seraphim System: @Qahramani44: I reverted the content of this article after I saw that someone simply changed it to Armenian, even though it's obvious that it was "Azerbaijani" for a long time and that the first sentence doesn't even make sense with Armenian, as it becomes: "Bozbash (Azerbaijani: bozbaş "grey head" or "grey meal") is an Armenian[citation needed] mutton soup which is also popular in Georgia, Armenia and Iran". That way it leaves Azerbaijan totally out. Wikaviani, who is pushing his own anti-Turkic POV in articles that are especially related with Azerbaijan and/or Azerbaijanis, acussed me of POV pushing and that i'm a "cross-article disruptive editor"! @Wikaviani: You better stop pushing your own obvious POV pushing by using false accusations againt me as pretext, or I will start reporting this. Akocsg (talk) 12:33, 6 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Akocsg: Please be my guest, go ahead and report me, i would welcome the eye of an admin and this will put a spot of light on your « contributions » on Wikipedia too. Regards.---Wikaviani ^{(talk) (contribs)} 14:15, 6 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see any problem with my contributions, and what they have to do with the topic. The point is you used a misleading edit summary, even though it is obviously false and denigrative, while I simply reinstated original content. Akocsg (talk) 16:16, 6 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Akocsg: « Wikaviani, who is pushing his own anti-Turkic POV in articles that are especially related with Azerbaijan and/or Azerbaijanis » Nope, unlike you, i only try to go with what sources say, i don’t have any agenda here. As to this Azerbaijani or Armenian soup, i was not able to find any mention of it in the cited source : « A Dictionary of Food and Nutrition », please provide an inline citation supporting an Azerbaijani origin of this food, or any mention of its origin should be removed.---Wikaviani ^{(talk) (contribs)} 17:35, 6 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Again, all I did was revert to its original state. I'm not the one claiming any origin. Akocsg (talk) 23:14, 6 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

removed place of origin, until a reliable source is found.---Wikaviani ^{(talk) (contribs)} 23:20, 6 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Etymology[edit]

Only because two components of the word are Turkic-sounding, Wikipedia cannot state in the introductory sentence that "bozbash is a word of Azeri Turkish origin". Boz (بز) means "lamb" in Persian, for your information. What does "gray head" in Turkish have to do with a lamb meat stew?! Likewise, in Armenian this stew has an authentic name, garnapoor, translated from Armenian as "lamb soup".98.231.157.169 (talk) 21:47, 4 October 2019 (UTC)Davidian[reply]

“Bozbash is the most common Armenian meat soup of fatty lamb stew with a variety of vegetables and fruits, slightly acidified.” Source: Villiam Pokhlebkin, National Cuisines of our Peoples. Moscow, Centerpolygraph Press, 2004, p. 172.98.231.157.169 (talk) 21:52, 4 October 2019 (UTC)Davidian[reply]

Iranian or Azerbaijani cuisine[edit]

The word "Bozbash" is of Azerbaijani origin. However, its roots don't necessarily make it an Azerbaijani dish, just as it doesn't make it an Iranian dish. If more evidence is shared indicating that the specific dish named Bozbash is an Iranian dish ( not any other similar dish, specifically Bozbash), the confusion can be resolved. Otherwise, attributing it to a cuisine without proper evidence would be baseless. I mean even the etymology is not Iranic. We definetly need more precise sources for clarification Leamsezadah (talk) 17:08, 19 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Logic makes no sense. Azerbaijan has an Iranian name, does that make it an Iranian country? Or perhaps the Nakhchivan Autonomous Republic an Armenian country? Yes I know it sounds silly, but that is what logic you're using, loan words from other languages are not exactly uncommon. Anyways, in Wikipedia we follow WP:RS, not our own opinions/deductions - you should be well aware of this by now. HistoryofIran (talk) 17:13, 19 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

If you read carefully, I'd say stating that etymology alone is insufficient for determining the origin. My friend, the issue is that there isn't any shared source specifically claiming that the dish with the specific name "Bozbaş" belongs to Iranian cuisine. In one source, there might be mention of an Iranian dish resembling Bozbaş, but it doesn't specify the origin of the particular dish called Bozbaş. If there's something I missed, I'd appreciate it if you could point it out.

Under this conditions i think it is better to remove iranian or azerbaijani at all and just keeping "a dish" Leamsezadah (talk) 17:18, 19 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

So why mention that faulty logic at all? Anyways, you should read what I said as well; Anyways, in Wikipedia we follow WP:RS, not our own opinions/deductions - you should be well aware of this by now.

Let's see what the cited Iranica source says; BOZBĀŠ, Azeri Turkish name for an Iranian dish usually called ābgūšt-e sabzī HistoryofIran (talk) 17:23, 19 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

"Let's see what the cited Iranica source says; BOZBĀŠ, Azeri Turkish name for an Iranian dish usually called ābgūšt-e sabzī. "

Iranian food "ābgūšt-e sabzī", there is no cuisine sitation about specifically Bozbash. For ābgūšt-e sabzī yes, the source claims it is an Iranian dish. However for bozbash says it is azeei turkish name of "Iranian dish usually called ābgūšt-e sabzī". This article is about Bozbash not about ābgūšt-e sabzī. Leamsezadah (talk) 17:28, 19 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

What? I am sorry, but this is extremely simple English. I would advise you to read it a few times. HistoryofIran (talk) 17:29, 19 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Is this article about iranian dish ābgūšt-e sabzī or Bozbash? About which one? Leamsezadah (talk) 17:31, 19 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

If it is about ābgūšt-e sabzī, why azerbaijani variation name Bozbash is used? Leamsezadah (talk) 17:32, 19 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

They're the same dish. A dish can have names in more than one language...

Why is "Bozbash" used? I dunno, only the author and Iranica can answer that. Probably because it's the more popular name in English. HistoryofIran (talk) 17:34, 19 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

similar foods have many variations with little differences. It seems ābgūšt-e sabzī and bozbash situation is like that too. If this article is not directly about Azerbaijani version of ābgūšt-e sabzī, it is kinda illogical to use regional variation name for ābgūšt-e sabzī. It would better to be changed to ābgūšt-e sabzī. Otherwise this is the azerbaijani name of the food, not general one Leamsezadah (talk) 17:37, 19 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

A dish can have variations from city to city and even from household to household. However, it's ultimately still the same dish, as per the source. We should stick to whatever name's more common, per WP:COMMONNAME. HistoryofIran (talk) 18:05, 19 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]