Talk:Ben Luján

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Possible Relationship to Michelle Luján Grisham

I deleted Michelle Luján Grisham from the relatives box since Ben Ray Luján denies being cousins with Michelle. (https://twitter.com/benraylujan/status/1289382702844481536) However, on geni.com there is a claim that Ben and Michelle are fourth cousins once removed, if I counted correctly; go to https://www.geni.com/people/Manuel-de-Jes%C3%BAs-Luj%C3%A1n/6000000042269209577 and click on the "Father of links" until you reach them. Geni.com might not be reliable, though. The deletion seems appropriate to me anyway, since Michelle is not a "cousin" of Ben as usually understood, but I don't know if anyone wants to include the information, or if it's includable. Mwphil (talk) 14:29, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

This twitter thread https://twitter.com/xenocryptsite/status/1112757327294279680 has more discussion and some additional sourcing, as well as a graphical representation of the family tree. Presumably we'd need better sourcing to add anything in, but it's a place to look if anyone's interested. Mwphil (talk) 14:36, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

That twitter thread is not reliable. Geni.com is not reliable. Michelle Lujan Grisham’s and Ben Ray Lujan’s fathers were brothers, making them first cousins. This relation is not “possible.” Do not remove the information. KidAd (💬💬) 19:15, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

First of all, this is the entry for Ben Luján, Ben Ray Luján's father, so if Ben Ray Luján's father was the brother of Michelle Lujan Grisham's father then the infobox should say "niece" not "cousin."

Second, do you have a citation for that? I would not consider either that thread or Geni.com reliable, but that would seem to mean that there is no reliable source saying that Lujan Grisham is related to Luján at all, while there is an explicit denial from Ben Ray Luján that they are related. In the absence of a reliable source for the relation, shouldn't MLG be removed from the infobox? I'm not going to revert myself because I don't want to start an edit war, but I think we need sourcing here. Mwphil (talk) 05:17, 4 August 2020 (UTC)

For what it's worth, I believe that https://aldianews.com/articles/politics/psa-michelle-lujan-grisham-and-ben-ray-lujan-arent-cousins/59869 is a better fit for Wikipedia's criteria for a reliable source than BRL's tweet saying that he is not MLG's cousin, though I'm not sure that it counts as super reliable. The closest thing to a reliable source that I can find saying that MLG and BRL are related is https://www.eenews.net/special_reports/energy_scions/stories/1060020946, though its sourcing for saying that Michelle Lujan Grisham is related is thin to nonexistent ´(Ben Ray Luján's comment about "You have to go pretty far back" is about Manuel Luján, and the article puts an accent on Michelle Lujan Grisham's name that she doesn't appear to use). The obituaries for Ben Luján, Sr. and for Michelle Lujan Grisham's father do not record suggest that they are closely related. Mwphil (talk) 12:50, 4 August 2020 (UTC)

References